Hero of Time

Yes, Avengers 4 at least .

desmondluverbrotha

Cool Can't wait

Hero of Time

Me neither !

desmondluverbrotha

I want to see her in that costume too I bet she will look great

Hero of Time

I can't wait to see it!

desmondluverbrotha

Hopefully we will get to see her in costume soon

PhoenixRising

That's gonna be difficult because she doesn't have one. Janet has one, but Hope doesn't because her character doesn't exist in Marvel comics, so they'll have to just invent something out of the blue. But if Janet returns from the Quantum realm not having aged a day, I'm hoping eventually that Marvel will be able to retcon the story so that Evie plays Janet opposite a younger actor as Hank. I understand that the Scott/Hope thing is because of Edgar Wright, but eventually the MCU will have to return to canon and bring Hank and Janet into the Avengers because they can't have Hank remain an old man in the MCU when he's still young in the comics, and Paul Rudd won't be playing Scott Lang forever. Kevin Feige has talked about recasting, but I'm hoping that in the case of Ant-Man and Wasp they retcon instead of recast, because I just can't see them not having Hank and Janet in the Avengers since they've been on the team in the comics forever. Nothing against Paul Rudd, but Hank and Janet have spent the last 50 years earning the right to be in the MCU, and I'd rather see Evangeline as Janet to be honest.

Hero of Time

That's what I hope for , that Hope has her own origin story written for film. I've never read the Ant Man comics so I'm fine with Hope being the MCU's Wasp and the character getting her own origin and storylines. I can see why fans might want things to be different, but changes, even major ones, are expected in adaptations, especially from one media to another. I just don't know if they're gonna recast/retcon and have Hank and Janet. I think they're gonna stick to Scott and Hope. I wouldn't mind if Evi played Janet either. As long as she's part of the MCU, I'll be happy.

PhoenixRising

Well, with all due respect, how many times have the WestAllen people constantly quoted canon from The Flash? Well, Hank and Janet are canon from the Avengers, and I can make that argument for their rightful place in the MCU as well. Hank and Janet are two of the most important Avengers in Marvel comics history. They co-founded the team with Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and later Captain America; Hank(not Tony) is the one who actually created Ultron, Hank(not Scott) became Giant-Man once the team formed, and Janet(not Black Widow) is the actual first female Avenger and was the leader of the team at one point. Hank and Janet have been with the Avengers longer than any two Marvel characters and have been in nearly every single Avengers storyline from 1964 to the present day, so they are not characters that you can just discard. You know how many Avengers storylines Janet has been involved in? Nearly all of them. How many has Hope been in? Zero. Nada. Zip. Zilch. None. She doesn't exist.

First of all, there are no Ant-Man comics. Hank and Janet went right from Tales to Astonish to The Avengers, and have been there ever since. Second, the only reason that Hope even exists in the MCU is because of Edgar Wright's Ant-Man script, which was never intended to be an MCU movie. Third, I'm not fine with Hope being the MCU's Wasp because Janet is the one who made that character iconic in the comics for the last 50 years. She's the first female Avenger and she was the one featured in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series, which was extremely popular, so that's the character that Evangeline should be playing. And minor changes are expected, but you do not expect two of the main characters to be eliminated from their own story. Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and Hulk haven't been altered that much or removed from the Avengers in the MCU storyline, so I find that argument to be invalid. Again, if it hadn't been for Edgar Wright, Joss Whedon would've had Hank and Janet in the Avengers movies, and I don't think an entire cinematic universe should be influenced by one single filmmaker whose script didn't even work and who only ended up quitting. If Fox could fix things with their X-Men franchise with Days of Future Past, there's no reason Marvel can't do the same.

I do not expect that a movie character like Hope, with no history in the comics whatsoever, will remain the default Wasp in the MCU forever when Janet is the character that is canon in the comics, and whom Marvel will want to promote since she's still in the comics as an Avenger. I know non fans might not understand, but as a comic book fan I find it insulting and wrong if they stuck to Scott and Hope and don't give Hank and Janet their due. They've sidelined Hank and Janet in the comics for the present time because of what's going on in the MCU, but they can't do that forever, and sooner or later Hank and Janet are going to need to get their due in the MCU because they are the Avengers. Hank and Janet are the ones who have been on the team for the 50 years now, and they've earned the right to be in the MCU. If they have Evie as Janet, that would be fine, but having two Wasps just wouldn't make sense. And Kevin Feige has already stated that recasting is what Marvel intends to do with the characters once the current cast finally leaves, so what they should do is recast Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and all the other relevant Avengers, but retcon Hank and Janet so they can be in the present day. Marvel isn't gonna have Hank fused with Ultron in the comics forever, and they can't sideline Janet forever either. Look at how many times they've altered Spider-Man; the movies started off with the organic webbing, but now they've brought back the mechanical web-shooters from the comics.

desmondluverbrotha

Thanks for all the great information. I admit I have never been exposed to comic books so I was not aware of that. I do love that Evi is given the chance to be in the movies because I think she is awesome but it is sad that they do not do the comic justice by not having Janet. I have read books then seen the movie and been disappointed that important things were changed. I guess we don't have much control over what they do other than refuse to see their movies. I only got to see Ant Man once it came on the premium channels and I did love the bad ass female character that Evi played but I have only seen a couple of movies based on comics because I have never been exposed to comics so I did not know the background or that they moved so far from what was in the comics for that movie. I appreciate your coming here and sharing that and I hope that they come up with something to satisfy the comic lovers but still keep Evi because I would love to see more of her

Hero of Time

Whoa, you have a lot of feelings on this . I understand, there have been adaptations that disappointed me because they weren't "respectful" enough to the source material loved.

I think adaptations boil down to your personal preferences regarding the source material.

I think Hank and Janet might definitely get their time to shine, but not until they reboot things like 15 years from now.

About no Ant Man comics, I wouldn't know, because like I said I've never read any comics featuring Ant Man.

PhoenixRising

It's not just about "respecting" the source material. Look at the MCU and what do you see? You see every single founding Avenger in the Avengers movies except Hank and Janet. It's like the MCU has adopted an "everyone but you" policy with Hank and Janet. Why is the MCU capable of being respectful to the rest of the Avengers and not them? Why do those two, who are two of the most important characters, get left out? Because of Edgar Wright? Who is he exactly that 50 years of comic book history gets thrown out the window and mainstream audiences never even know that Hank and Janet are supposed to be two of the main characters in the Avengers? Janet Van Dyne has been The Wasp in the comics for 50 years, and she's the reason the character is iconic, yet movie audiences are only gonna know Hope, some character who didn't exist in the comics and only exists in the movies? Characters in comics don't age, so Hank and Janet aren't old people, and they never had kids. And the fact that you and other don't know much about the comics is precisely the reason why the movies should stick to the source material, because you'll get an inaccurate representation of who and what these characters are, which will damage their long term legacy. And I've waited 30 years for the Avengers to get to the big screen. Must I wait 15 to 20 more years for Hank and Janet to get their due when someone decides to "reboot" the MCU? I'll be an old man by then.

You're quite welcome. And like I said, I wouldn't mind Evi playing Janet Van Dyne, because that's the character that made The Wasp iconic over the last 50 years. But to have Janet cut out of her rightful place in the Avengers and the MCU entirely and replaced by a character who doesn't even exist in the comics is just unacceptable. And it's not like they had to do this, because Joss Whedon said he wanted Janet in the Avengers movies. The only reason Joss was prevented from using Hank and Janet was because of Edgar Wright, and as I said earlier, Edgar's film was never meant for the MCU and he only ended up quitting because his script didn't work in the MCU. And that's a pretty poor excuse for not giving Hank and Janet their rightful due.

desmondluverbrotha

I think you are right that Hank and Janet should get their due. I don't know why they did not stay true to the comics. Has there been any interviews where they explain that? Why would they just leave out those 2? Very odd and sad that we don't get to see the true original story. Evi could have just played Janet (and could still because many women look like their moms) It is not unheard of to change the comics and books in movies and tv. The Walking Dead and Game of Throne have taken artistic liberties with the stories that are altered from the original. Is it to try to make it better? Or to fit into the story better? Maybe some of both but the fans of the original source are the ones that lose. Since I never read the comics or books then I don't know any better but it is disappointing that they feel the story needs to be changed

Hero of Time

I understand your point, it must be frustratingg being a fan of the comics for so long and not seeing your favorites in the movie adaptations. I'm a big fan of the X-Men and to this day I'm pissed that we never got Gambit and Rogue together for example.

On Hank and Janet, I've seen this talk of a very controversial comic in which he beats up Jane and that was allegedly one of the reasons why they avoided bringing these characters do the MCU. Is it true or is it unfounded or just gossip?

There are rumours that we might see Janet, though!

PhoenixRising

No, it actually didn't fit better into the story. Like I already said, writer-director Edgar Wright quit the production and Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige said the script "just wasn't working." That's what makes me mad, because Wright is the guy they cut Hank and Janet out of the Avengers for just to accommodate his script, and then he ends up leaving the production because his script was so incompatible with the Marvel Cinematic Universe that shoehorning it in would require more changes than Wright wanted to make.

See, Edgar Wright's Ant-Man script was written way back in 2004, long before Iron Man came out and before Marvel Studios or the Marvel Cinematic Universe even existed. No one knew that an Avengers movie would be made back then, and Edgar's script was written as a stand-alone heist film, which is why he made it about Scott Lang and made Hank Pym an old man, because his film was set in a world where the Avengers didn't exist. This is the reason why I protested Marvel even doing this in the first place. If all of the other MCU movies are compatible with the Avengers storyline, then why cram this incompatible script into the MCU at the expense of two of the most important Avengers characters just to accommodate one filmmaker?

I think it had to do with the fact that Edgar was developing his movie first and they felt obligated to honor that arrangement as a sort of "gentlemen's agreement." Even Joss Whedon admitted that the only reason he couldn't use Hank and Janet in his Avengers movies was because "Edgar had him(Hank) first." But I don't think that makes for very good storytelling when it forces you to rearrange the entire MCU just to accommodate that one film... especially when Edgar only ended up quitting because he didn't want his film to have anything to do with the MCU. That annoys me because in that case they just should've made a movie about Hank and Janet(which would've been more compatible with the Avengers story) and avoided the hassle.


Well, it's not just about Hank and Janet being favorites, it's about them being vital to the story. Not having Hank and Janet in the Avengers is like not having Cyclops and Jean Grey in the X-Men, or Reed Richards and Susan Storm in The Fantastic Four. Hank and Janet are the founding members of the Avengers and they've been on the team longer than anyone, and have been in nearly every single Avengers story. Hank is the one who created Ultron, not Tony Stark. Hank became Giant-Man after forming the Avengers because he felt he needed a power upgrade. He could still shrink, but increasing in size and strength became his main ability after joining the Avengers. Scott Lang was never Giant-Man, and he only became Ant-Man because Hank had left that identity behind. And Janet is not only the first female Avenger, she was the leader of the team after Captain America left. Hank and Janet were also both members of the West Coast Avengers team later on, and they were also in Civil War. How could you not have Hank and Janet in the Avengers movies when they're so important to the team in the comics? And Janet is the one who made The Wasp iconic in the comics for the last 50 years. To have her legacy taken up by some "Hope" character who doesn't even exist in the comics is unacceptable. They didn't eliminate Steve Rogers and have some dude named "Ralph" be Captain America, did they?


It's not true in the way they say it happened. Hank never "beat up" Janet. See, what the movies get wrong is that the suits don't really do anything, they just contain the Pym particles, which do all the work. Hank in the movie is depicted as being powerless without the Ant-Man suit, but in the comics, Hank and Janet are both superhumans, capable of changing size whenever they want, regardless of what they're wearing. Prolonged exposure to the Pym particles(ingesting or inhaling them) resulted in Hank and Janet's bodies permanently absorbing them, to the point where they now replicate inside their bodies like cells and allow Hank and Janet to shrink and grow at will. Janet's wings aren't part of a costume, they are bio-mechanical wings that grow from her own body.

What happened was that Hank was involved in a laboratory accident that caused a radioactive chemical leak which made the Pym particles in his body become unstable, which resulted in him temporarily losing control of his powers and developing neurological disorders like schizophrenia and dissociative personality disorder. The Yellowjacket persona was an actual alternate personality who claimed to have "killed" Hank, until Janet realized that Yellowjacket and Hank were the same person. Hank eventually regained control of his mind, but he still suffered severe mental disorders for years afterwards due to his deteriorating condition. Hank started becoming more unstable, which resulted in an incident where he was suspended from the Avengers by Captain America after sneaking up on and attacking a supervillain that Cap was attempting to negotiate with, which only exacerbated the situation. This was not only reckless, but insubordinate, and Hank got kicked off the team.

Hank was later put on trial, and his brain had become so Swiss-cheesed that he concocted this insane plan to design a robot to attack the courthouse where the trial was being held. His plan was to stage an attack and stop the robot at the last minute as a way of winning his way back on the team, so he was clearly out of his mind at the time. Janet saw this and tried to stop him, but as she approached him he lashed out to keep her away and ended up knocking her down. Now... the scene was written as Hank flailing his arms around wildly and Janet was supposed to be accidentally struck by his arm, but the artist who drew the panel misinterpreted the scene and drew it as a back-handed slap, and that's where this stupid controversy comes from. Number one, Hank was not in his right mind at the time and hadn't been since that stupid lab accident, so he was not in control of his actions. Number two, this was a miscommunication between the writer and the artist, and the issue went to print before the mistake could be corrected. So I've never understood why anyone blamed Hank for this.

And I don't see why this would in any way prevent Hank and Janet from being in the Avengers movies. They were both featured prominently in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, which was very popular and aimed at kids, so why not have them in the movies? After all, Tony Stark was a raging alcoholic in the comics, who lost his company, drank himself into the gutter, and nearly died while in the hospital. But the Marvel movies gracefully sidestepped that whole "Demon in a Bottle" storyline, didn't they? And Jean Grey was nuts during her "Dark Phoenix" storyline, where she destroyed an entire planet. They killed her off because they felt she had become irredeemable, but then they later retconned her storyline to bring her back, making the Dark Phoenix a doppelganger while the real Jean was in a cocoon at the bottom of the ocean, where she was found by the Fantastic Four. And Cyclops? He was also possessed by the Phoenix Force during the Avengers vs. X-Men storyline, and he ended up killing Professor Xavier. I don't see anyone saying that Scott and Jean shouldn't be in the X-Men movies.

Quicksilver was a total bastard in the comics, having an affair with Crystal of the Inhumans while she was still dating Johnny Storm, the Human Torch of the Fantastic Four. Crystal ends up leaving Johnny for Quicksilver and has a child with him, but then he later cheats on her and leaves her a single mom. The Quicksilver played by Evan Peters in the X-Men movies is nothing like his comic book version, right? And Spider-Man? Let's not forget that Peter Parker once hit Mary Jane Watson. It was during the Spider-Clone storyline, where The Jackal had tricked Peter into believing test results that showed that Ben Reilly, the Spider-Clone, was the real Peter Parker and that Peter was the clone all along. This turned out not to be true, but at the time Peter went crazy with fury, attacking Ben and nearly killing him. And when Mary Jane tried to stop him, Peter back-fisted her across a room, slamming her against a wall. Oh, and did I mention she was pregnant with Peter's child at the time? Now, is anyone saying that Peter Parker shouldn't be in any Spider-Man movies?





And seeing Janet will be useless if she's not The Wasp, and especially if she's old. And if she comes back from the quantum realm having not aged, how is that gonna help if Hank is an old man and Hope is the new Wasp? All I want is for Hank and Janet to be young superheroes in the Avengers like they're supposed to be, and I really don't care how it happens. A, the Infinity Gauntlet resets the timeline; or B, Hank and Janet both return from the quantum realm not having aged and old Hank turns out to be an imposter, and Hope is a clone of Janet. That way Evi can play Janet and some other actor can play Hank.