[HipHopKingMike]

Episodes this season:

07/Sep/94 What I Did on My Summer Vacation and Other Stories
14/Sep/94 Under the Influence
21/Sep/94 A Clean Slate
28/Sep/94 Life After Death
05/Oct/94 Rave On
12/Oct/94 Homecoming
19/Oct/94 Who's Zoomin' Who?
26/Oct/94 Things That Go Bang in the Night
02/Nov/94 Intervention
09/Nov/94 The Dreams of Dylan McKay
16/Nov/94 Hate Is Just a Four-Letter Word
23/Nov/94 Rock of Ages (a.k.a. The Voodoo That You Do So Well)
30/Nov/94 Up in Flames
14/Dec/94 Injustice for All
21/Dec/94 Christmas Comes This Time Each Year
04/Jan/95 Sentenced to Life
11/Jan/95 Sweating It Out
18/Jan/95 Hazardous to Your Health
01/Feb/95 Little Monsters
08/Feb/95 You Gotta Have Heart
15/Feb/95 Stormy Weather
22/Feb/95 Alone at the Top
01/Mar/95 Love Hurts
15/Mar/95 Unreal World
29/Mar/95 Double Jeopardy
05/Apr/95 A Song for My Mother
12/Apr/95 Squash It
03/May/95 Girls on the Side
10/May/95 The Real McKay
17/May/95 Hello Life, Goodbye Beverly Hills
24/May/95 P.S. I Love You (1)
24/May/95 P.S. I Love You (2)

Past Threads
http://www.fanforum.com/f265/season-...read-62985897/
http://www.fanforum.com/f265/season-...-2-a-63196060/

[yulan]

Damn. I wrote a post and clicked submit, and then Mike closed the thread Now I have to reconstruct everything.

Come on. At that point, she was free from Finley's spell and she knew that his words about Dylan were all part of a con. Dylan himself told her. Kelly cleared her head, went back to Brandon, then cheated with Dylan -- knowing that she'd already come between them, and that this definitely wouldn't help their relationship. Yet she did it anyway. She certainly wasn't perfect, and I considered her fully responsible for those actions. I was more disappointed in the writers, because the Dylan fling made little sense.

I obviously consider her fully responsible for her actions too, but the writers gave her a lot of excuses. And everything was traced back to her alleged awesomeness, trauma or destiny. I don't think we were even supposed to see anything she did at that point as wrong. More like a destiny, inner conflict, existential crisis, love which justifies everything, understandable decision (depending on her action), complicated situation, etc. We did not necessarily, but we were supposed to. I felt like it was shoved down my throat. From S3 onwards, and especially from S5, everything that Kelly did was "complicated" and "special".

What do you mean by "more disappointed in the writers"? More disappointed in them than what?

And indeed, she did not lose Brandon, especially not in a long run. She did want to continue a relationship with him at the end of S5, and he rejected it. But I don't think we were supposed to see that as a consequence of her wrong choice or something that some Kelly/Brandon fans would probably say, but as a consequence of her noble decision not to step in between two friends (after she did for about a year), nor to be treated as a trophy in a competition (more understandable to me, but that also did not ring true).

In any case, she did start shagging Colin pretty soon afterwards, so it's not like she suffered terribly.

[HipHopKingMike]

Kelly was the root cause of all of this, not Brandon or Dylan. Personally it wasn't Brandons fault one bit here - I'm glad he set Kelly straight in Palm Springs. Yes Dylan and Brandon did act a bit childish trying to get Kelly's attention but like I said Kelly was the problem. Thats why I think they should have suggested a threesome

[yulan]

I do see all three of them being at fault, actually. But what we see is not necessarily what writers intended to be seen. And it's not like we always know what they precisely wanted, of course (neither do they), and sometimes they leave space for multiple interpretations intentionally.

[HipHopKingMike]

I'm afraid I will have to agree to disagree on this

[yulan]

On what? That what we see does not necessarily match what writers intended?

I guess that you mean all three being at fault. Well, feel free to disagree.

[HipHopKingMike]

Yes. I blame Kelly totally not Dylan or Brandon. As for the writing, erm no comment

People will have different opinions on a subject and obviously some people might not agree with me or with you

[yulan]

Of course.

I don't see why the boys would not be blamed though. They both messed with their best friend's girlfriend. In addition, Brandon did cheat with Emily before Kelly cheated with Dylan. Etc. etc.

What I find interesting is that people tend to comment a lot on Kelly cheating with Dylan on Brandon. But first she cheated on Dylan with Brandon. That is somehow never commented as much as S5 reversion.

[HipHopKingMike]

Too much playing around on the show

Kelly did mess around with Brandon while with Dylan in S4.

I guess karma bites everybody in the end

[hshapir2]

Dylan kissed Lucinda too

[yulan]

Now thinking back of Kelly being silly to fall for Finley's **** - yes, she was silly. But were we supposed to think she was silly to fall for it? I don't think so. Brandon at some point makes a comment to Dylan that he can't believe that "smart, sophisticated people" like he and Kelly (something like that) could fall for it, and Dylan tells him there is something in Finley's words. And I think they leave it at it - yes, Finley was dangerous, it's good Kelly and Dylan got away from the cult, but there was something deep and serious in his words and the whole experience. Kelly was not supposed to be seen as silly, easily manipulated and addictive, but deeply reflective, serious and vulnerable (ok, vulnerable she was). They told us so many times that season how smart she was, and how much she evolved. Supposedly, she did not fall for Finley's bull because she was acting stupid or not thinking enough, but because she was smart and she was thinking too much.

Indeed, Dylan did kiss Lucinda. And wanted to kiss Brenda at least two times while he was officially with Kelly.

[James26]

Originally Posted by yulan (View Post) And indeed, she did not lose Brandon, especially not in a long run. She did want to continue a relationship with him at the end of S5, and he rejected it. But I don't think we were supposed to see that as a consequence of her wrong choice or something that some Kelly/Brandon fans would probably say, but as a consequence of her noble decision not to step in between two friends (after she did for about a year), nor to be treated as a trophy in a competition (more understandable to me, but that also did not ring true).

It seems that this whole topic revolves around two things:

1. What happened on the show.

2. Our interpretations of what happened on the show.

I'm going to say that I respect everyone's right to their interpretations.

Any way you slice it, she and Brandon were together before her affair, and ran into trouble after, so she holds some accountability for that IMO. I don't think Brandon did anything wrong in that situation, but I could be forgetting.

[yulan]

It seems that this whole topic revolves around two things: 1. What happened on the show. 2. Our interpretations of what happened on the show.

There is actually the third variable: how we were supposed to see what happened on the show For example, Donna taught poor black mother what she should do with her kids (what happened on the show), she was supposed to be seen as an angel for that (how we are supposed to perceive it), and not everyone sees her as such (our interpretations - I see her as a very annoying and incompetent white savior). But joking aside, it is important to distinguish between the three.

Any way you slice it, she and Brandon were together before her affair, and ran into trouble after, so she holds some accountability for that IMO. I don't think Brandon did anything wrong in that situation, but I could be forgetting.

Well, Brandon did cheat with Emily first, before Kelly cheated with Dylan? And of course that Kelly holds the accountability, but writers tried very hard to give her excuses. Brandon's cheating and a partial loss of confidence in him, self-doubts, trauma because of fire and all it triggered, memories of how Dylan handled her insecurities, and of course, "destiny". I am probably forgetting something. They tried to give her excuses more than to hold her accountable, I would say.

I mean, did anyone even call on her for cheating? I don't think so.

[James26]

Donna said it would be a mistake to risk her relationship with Brandon.

[yulan]

Saying it would be a risk is not the same as calling her out on cheating I think that when Donna and Clare discussed the triangle Donna was more supportive of Dylan.

Anyway, now thinking of S5 and independently from cheating, I think that Kelly had reasons to have doubts in Brandon even without Emily. He was mocking her during her beauty crisis with "Oh, Kelly's not eating again". Now, I did find her image issues annoying - but an eating disorder is NOT something to joke about. What did Dylan do? He said, "The most beautiful or not, I'd have fallen in love with you either way, Kel." Of course that might have triggered her to think about the way he handled her eating disorder in S3 - and it was much better than Brandon at that point. Maybe he also did not take it seriously in the beginning, and he did not perfectly understand her, but he NEVER mocked it, especially not since he found out what it was. Brandon did. Who would feel secure in a relationship with him if behaves like that? I am not surprised Kelly might have thought her ex was actually better for her. (of course, that was never brought up when it came to the revival of Kelly/Dylan. They capitalized the past lives, destiny and passion. That was not convincing, and this actually could have been.)

Brandon did handle her beauty issues better after the fire and when he saw her scars etc., but that comment about her eating disorder was really bad.