mellifluouscloud

Interesting discussion here. It's funny, I never really thought about why Emma got the PTSD-ish plot after the shooting instead of the more involved characters. I think I was conditioned to accept all of Emma's out-of-nowhere storylines, though, since she was essentially the golden child of Degrassi seasons 1-7. I can't even fault her for that; she's the link to Degrassi Junior High after all. So I feel that Emma was sometimes "chosen" for storylines that may have been more appropriate for other characters just because she's Emma.

As far as Jimmy's character development, or lack thereof, I think when he was "mean" in the early seasons, it had more to do with his being young and immature than a real character flaw. Spinner was mean too. I remember Jimmy being nice to Toby in season 1 when he could have just as easily brushed him off as an annoying little kid. I guess the problem with Jimmy is that he doesn't seem to have any kind of tragic flaw that most of the characters have, which makes them seem more human. Especially after season 4, it seemed like most of his storylines were designed so we could pity him.

There was absolutely a missed opportunity with Sean in season 6. Most of season 6 is like season 5 to me... i.e. I pretend they never happened.

kaleidocat

MegaJ brought up some interesting points about Emma and the PTSD-ish plot in the season 4 discussion thread and I responded with a few thoughts. There's a part of me that understands but then looking back on all the seasons, I think that Emma's behavior in Secret was more Emma just being Emma and trying to find herself or whatever. This time she just found herself in the back of a van. I can't even begin to think about all the little missteps and self discovery this girl has made along the way. It got more and more ridiculous each time...the last we saw of her she wanted to quit college and go biking cause school is hard...then she's back again and wants to get married. Her plots may have been more thoughtful early on but in later seasons it was obvious they were just there because it's Emma. And that favoritism shouldn't have happened just because she's a link to an old school character.

Season 5 and 6...the low point of the series. I think I enjoyed season 5 at the time but season 6 was impossible to tolerate. There's episodes I still haven't watched.

MegaJ

From the season 4 thread:

Of course this never occurred to me, lol. Now that I think about it, she bases a lot of her identity from what other people think of her. While she does believe in helping others and the environment, she is also "The Cause Girl" and "Sean's girlfriend". When one of those traits was gone and she blossomed into a beautiful young lady, she clung to the Hot Chick. Then Rick shattered that and since then she's a little lost. She gets her favoritism storyline-wise, but having a boyfriend every season is line for someone like her.

Good point. Despite all that has happened to him, I really couldn't get into his storylines. He was deadset on become able-bodied (they missed an opportunity to explore ableism with that mindset -- does every handicapped person want to be able?) and you couldn't help but root for him. It's makes you feel good, but not really emotionally investing as a viewer.

Season 5 is the lowest point in this series, IMO with season 6 barely squeaking by only being redeemed by Palex, Darcy's prominence, and a little of the Spemma stuff. Everything was very disjointed other then Spinner's road to redemption and Palex. I think they were trying to do new things and experiment with whose going to lead this show with the five seniors possibly leaving that year and they had to hold back so many people. I also think they wanted to see if JT and Liberty were compelling to hold down a big storyline (and WHOO DOGGIE THEY COULDN'T). Or maybe with the cast graduating, they just ran out of ideas for that group. You'll notice things didn't really start to get better until the Lakehurst students showed up in season 7.

Speaking of JT, I said my piece in character discussion thread, and the reason why that pregnancy storyline blew so much chunks is that he is a flat character. They didn't have a backstory until season 5 or so. The early seasons, he was basically Toby's sidekick (boy, how that changed...) until he got popular. His immaturity/insecurites are brought up a few times but they're just brought up and not really explored. At the point, Liberty was the more interesting of the duo and she could've help that storyline a lot if she wasn't screaming all the time.

mellifluouscloud

Damn. You bring up so many good points that I'm second-guessing how much I really loved the "original" characters after all! I agree so much about JT/Liberty not being able to carry a storyline, and I never even thought about an alternative to Jimmy wanting to be able-bodied again.

My theory is that the writers were scared to give Jimmy any negative attributes after he became disabled. It's like that was punishment enough. So he was just the good guy who kept running into bad luck and we felt sorry for him. Poor Jimmy, he got shot... poor Jimmy, Ellie doesn't like him like that... poor Jimmy, he can't graduate... poor Jimmy, his dad's cheating on his mom... poor Jimmy, Ashley sabotaged his music career... poor Jimmy, he can't get an erection! His storylines became tiresome because he was never at fault. Don't get me wrong, I like Jimmy -- but it's impossible not to like him, and that's the real problem.

I know I've complained about the show bringing in so many new characters in season 11, which seems unnecessary after the complete reboot of the show in season 10... but looking back, maybe it is wise to do so. As much as I love and will miss Holly J, Sav, Anya, Riley, and Chantay -- I don't want to see them become caricatures of their former selves like Paige, Marco, Ellie, JT and the rest. I think Degrassi has proven over the years that it does much better when the show is "fresh." Now if we could only improve the character development!

MD9999

^
The only problem is that the new characters are just unbearably bad. I support the introduction of new characters, but only in the Darcy style. (Darcy joined the show independently, not with a whole new class of kids--re: season 8-- and she integrated really well. Despite not being an original character, Darcy has the original feel

Nekoshoujo

My issue with new kids is the way they seem to be brought into the show in relation to someone else. Like with season 11 it looks like Jake and Imogen are just there to play love interests to Clare and Eli. Ususally that just leads to contrived storylines and one demential characters.

I agree about the Darcy approach. I'm actually looking forward to seeing Marisol and Katie next season because it actually seems like they'll just naturally start to fit into storylines based on Marisol's slow introduction and Katie kinda using Marisol's presence as a spring board.

It also feels kinda clunky to take whole episodes basically introducing new characters every season. Having a character like Chantay or Marisol slowly gain a larger part in the series helps with the flow of their storylines.

MD9999

I would certainly describe this as a very important part of the Darcy introduction. She was in season four, but not in a particularly significant way. For example, she was the girl Toby paid to kiss Rick. However, I would describe the Chantay situation as a bit much. She and Darcy were introduced at the same time and she still hasn't really had a storyline! EXCEPT THE AWESOME POST IT STORY.

Marisol has had a much better introduction than some, but I still don't think it's on Darcy's level. She was in no more than one or two plots in a minor role, and only in the Boiling Point. I may be completely wrong about this, but that's how I remember it. A better example IMO is Fitz. I'm not exactly a fan, but his introduction in season nine (Shoot to Thrill, Beat it, Heart Like Mine) was significant enough that when he became a real character I remembered him. I do remember Marisol, but a lot of the fandom doesn't seem to.

This actually brings me back to a conclusion I've long held. A strong recurring cast is extremely beneficial to the show. In season ten I thought they did a nice job of doing this a bit more, particularly with parents (who I always love to see)
With this particular topic (Darcy, Marisol), I would say that the nice thing about a strong recurring cast is that they can join the show as main cast in a natural way or they can fade into oblivion if it isn't working out. In general this also makes sense because not all new characters should actually have to be new to Degrassi. Random thought: Dave went to Degrassi for all of season 8; seeing him once or twice would have made his entry in season 9 much more natural

MegaJ

I do agree that the introduction of the new characters needs to be gradual, but consider the situation season 5/6. I think this was the show at it's lowest point creatively and popularity wise and they needed some quick influx FAST. So we get the Lakehurst students coming in and a new freshman class. And I say it worked: I will truly miss seeing Anya, Holly J, Riley, Sav, and Chantay.

I don't think the introduction of the four new mains during season 10 was botched really. Bianca, Eli, Adam, and Drew popped in a few times and mingled before being brought to full prominence (even longer for Bianca) and the few others that haven't made main cast (Marisol, Jess, Sadie, Owen until later). As long as the slowly introduce Imogen, Jake and Katie I'm good. The only disappointing this is that there's only a few Grade 9s and so many new grade 11s and I always think the show needs young (13-14) people.

mellifluouscloud

Yeah, this bothers me. I even wish the Lakehurst kids in season 7 had been introduced as grade 9s instead of second semester grade 10s. (The years went by so quickly!) It seems so counterproductive to introduce new characters that we already know will be graduating in a season or two.

varjak-golightly

ITA it really bugs me that we don't even see younger kids in the background. It's like once Emma's class left grade 7 it was the end of grade 7's at Degrassi (apart from Kendra etc.)

MD9999

I agree with both of the above.

When I found out they were adding almost entirely juniors for season 11, I was extremely confused. It just doesn't make sense unless they further bend the timeline.

It would be ideal if new characters were maybe 8th graders (7th grade is just a little too terrible) because that allows for a lot of development over the course of years, more mundane issue topics, and characters that are less based on appearance or some such thing (Declan). No one is particularly attractive when they're in eighth grade!

Nekoshoujo

Having someone not attractive on this show? *gasp* I'm rewatching the early seasons now and I honestly forgot how normal the kids on the show used to be. They look like they walked into a real high school and mugged some students for their clothes. Now everyone has their own personal stylist. Obviously that works for the coyne twins but everyone else? hmmm

The show is a lot about glamour and looks these days. Or maybe that's just because that tends to be what the fandom focuses on. Scroll through tumblr and you won't see many posts about a character's personality but you'll see post after post about how pretty so-and-so is.

Ultimately I guess it's just a reflection of what teenagers these days are like. They move through things very fast and now the show does that too. Probably important for keeping their fanbase but I'm not convinced it's a good thing. I guess it's just not my style.

NocturnalCouchPotato

Sorry my reply is late. I had finals.
@kaleidocat: I guess it was nice how they didn't deliver his story as one 22 minute Aesop but with several reoccurring plots. It would've been nice to see him get the PTSD A plot, though. And I wish Sean dealt with the shooting more. Why did Daniel Clark leave Degrassi, anyway?
I think they didn't know what to do with Emma after a while because there could only be so much episodes where she protests against GM foods or whatever. And personally, I think it would be unrealistic for a high school senior to be more environment obsessed than anything. I think the only time I liked her after season 3 was in Touch of Grey? And even then, it was in a rooting-for-the-bad-guys way.
@mellifluouscloud: 'I guess the problem with Jimmy is that he doesn't seem to have any kind of tragic flaw that most of the characters have, which makes them seem more human. Especially after season 4, it seemed like most of his storylines were designed so we could pity him.' That's exactly what I mean! And to me, it's not like he had much of a personality before, so I didn't get that sad in TSS. I mean, I started crying once Ashley's Mom was like 'Jimmy?', but I felt like he was a flat character so it's not like anything's gonna change. ... I need to get more sleep.
I guess I like characters that are subjective. Jimmy never had any choices. He was in a seemingly endless relationship with Hazel or Ashley, and was in a wheelchair. Nothing else. He had the faux-relationship with Ellie for some of S5, but that was it. And no matter what, Jimmy's right. Ashley is my favorite character but even I agree that some of her stuff were wrong. But for Jimmy, he's always right, all the time.



And this kind of has to do with the introducing new characters rant, but I hate it how the show was so quick to get rid of longrunners like Ash or Toby in the theme song, but were okay with adding characters like Damien or Zane (I think he was in 2 episodes for part 2 of season 10?) and Owen. Or how Armstrong isn't on yet. I mean, Armstrong, Ashley, and Toby were on the show before all the hype and glamor and suddenly they're pushed aside for all of these new kids who appear just as much as they do.

And this paragraph made me realize/wonder two things: Why did Melissa leave the show, especially considering Ashley was so close to graduating her second time? Would not appearing in the last 10 episodes of season 7 really ruin her personal schedule? And I feel like Zane is in the same boat as Jimmy for the Gary Stu-ness. He feels like Riley's accessory at this point and to me, his 'acceptance' isn't open minded, it's just one dimensionalness on the writer's behalf.

MegaJ

Watching season 10 again as I do the TVTropes recaps...watching Love Lockdown again. I was ambivalent at the when this episode aired but now I see that Declan's actions are firmly in the "RAPE" category. I don't think Holly J was AFRAID really, but fighting her feelings and ending up doing something she never attended to happen - which is still rape. I'm not a woman, but a gay guy and certainly I would feel kinda creeped if someone started doing that if I didn't want them too, even if I loved them.

The show DID send the overall message "Hey Declan. Dude. Not cool." Which I'll give it that, but reading some of the news bits I've read since that scene aired makes me wish that they firmly said "This was a rape. Declan feels bad about it yeah. And he's not some monster. But he raped her." Maybe the scene should've gone something like this:

Holly J: Look Declan, I don't think you're some rapist-monster or anything...
Declan: But do you think I raped you?
Holly J: ...
*Declan throws his hands up and sits on the couch*

If they didn't want to say the "R" word out loud, I think that scene would've been more effective and implicit in getting the point across.

AND THAT'S ALL I'LL HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

mellifluouscloud

Firstly -- you do the TVTropes recaps? That's so awesome! I'm always impressed with the way those are written and can get totally sucked into reading them for hours. So that's really cool.

Secondly, as I'm sure you're well aware, probably not a good idea to get into the LL discussion in this thread. Having said that, I 100% agree with your post. If you ever feel like discussing it some more, you should check out the anti-D/HJ thread because that's where we go when we want to rage about LL.