Fan Forum
Remember Me?
Register

  Request a Forum   |     View New Forums

Reply   Post New Thread
 
Forum Affiliates Tags Thread Tools
Old 04-11-2011, 09:37 PM
  #1
Addicted Fan

 
mellifluouscloud's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,759
The Grossmance {Anti-Holly J/Declan} #3 - Because anything less than a yes is a no.

The Grossmance #3




This is now about something much bigger than disliking a ship and not wanting two fictional characters
to be together. This is about the fact that Degrassi screwed up. We want acknowledgment
from the show's producers and writing staff that Degrassi ignored the legal definition of consent.
We want clarification that Holly J did not consent. Degrassi claims to be an educational show,
but when it came to the date-rape storyline presented in Love Lockdown, Degrassi did not educate.
We want the show to stop ignoring this storyline by attempting to rewrite history or redefine
what it means to be raped or sexually assaulted. We want Degrassi to apologize for victim-
blaming and "blurring the lines."
Rape is not a gray area and consent is not up for debate.
We want them to know how pissed off and angry this episode made us feel, that it's the dark cloud
over the entire series, and that we still can't believe Degrassi could be so irresponsible.
At the very least, we want to know that the Declan/Holly J "romance" is over for good.





Rape is forced sexual intercourse, including vaginal, anal, or oral penetration.
Rape victims may be forced through threats or physical means. In about
8 out of 10 rapes, no weapon is used other than physical force.
RAINN


Eight percent of college men have either attempted or successfully raped.
Thirty percent say they would rape if they could get away with it.
When the wording was changed to “force a woman to have sex,” the number
jumped to 58%. Worse still, 83.5% argue that “some women look like
they are just asking to be raped.
MARGO PAINE, PH.D, BODY WARS


Rape culture is the insistence on trying to distinguish between different kinds of
rape via the use of terms like "gray rape" or "date rape." Rape culture is
pervasive imagery of stranger rape, even though women are three times
more likely to be raped by someone they know than a stranger
, and
nine times more likely to be raped in their home, the home of someone they know,
or anywhere else than being raped on the street, making what is commonly
referred to as "date rape" by far the most prevalent type of rape.

RAPE CULTURE 101 (LINK)




If we teach women that there are only certain ways they may acceptably behave,
we should not be surprised when they behave in those ways. People wonder why
women don’t “fight back,”
but they don’t wonder about it when women back
down in arguments, are interrupted, purposefully lower and modulate their voices
to express less emotion, make obvious signals that they are uninterested in
conversation or being in closer physical proximity and are ignored. They don’t
wonder about all those daily social interactions in which women are quieter,
ignored, or invisible, because those social interactions seem normal. They seem
normal to women, and they seem normal to men, because we were all raised in
the same cultural pond, drinking the same Kool-Aid.
FUGIVITUS (LINK)

This is what rape culture looks like.







"Was I Raped?" VIA RAINN

It doesn’t matter if you think your partner means yes, or if you’ve already started having sex — “No” also means “Stop.” If you proceed despite your partner’s expressed instruction to stop, you have not only violated basic codes of morality and decency, you may have also committed a crime under the laws of your state.

I didn’t resist physically – does that mean it isn’t rape?
People respond to an assault in different ways. Just because you didn’t resist physically doesn’t mean it wasn’t rape — in fact, many victims make the good judgment that physical resistance would cause the attacker to become more violent. Lack of consent can be express (saying “no”) or it can be implied from the circumstances.

I used to date the person who assaulted me – does that mean it isn’t rape?
Rape can occur when the offender and the victim have a pre-existing relationship (sometimes called “date rape” or “acquaintance rape”), or even when the offender is the victim’s spouse. It does not matter whether the other person is an ex-boyfriend or a complete stranger, and it doesn’t matter if you’ve had sex in the past. If it is nonconsensual this time, it is rape.





Rape Statistics VIA RAINN
  • 1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime.
  • 29% of victims are age 12-17.
  • 44% are under age 18.
  • 80% are under age 30.
  • 12-34 are the highest risk years.
  • Girls ages 16-19 are 4x more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.
  • Two-thirds of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
  • 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
  • 38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
  • 28% of rapists are an intimate.
  • 60% of rapes/sexual assaults are not reported to the police.



Three Stages of Acquaintance Rape VIA RAINN

1. Intrusion: Attempt by the offender to violate the victim's personal space and level of comfort.
May draw close by revealing personal information or through "accidental" touches and stares.

2. Desensitization: Occurs when the victim feels comfortable with the offender and has
come to regard intrusive actions as no longer or, at least less, threatening. The victim of the
desensitization may feel uneasy but convinces himself or herself that the feeling is unfounded.

3. Isolation: The offender uses the victim's trust to isolate him or her from others.

Declan is guilty of all of these.


haters;
1. Alexa
2. ScribbleKiss
3. DiBye23
4. mellifluouscloud
5. MadisonNorthFan
6. Eva Diva
7. Sarita234
8. Girlfriend
9. CaroxxJane
10. worththeriskx
11. AllyPorter
12. greenfiend
13. Oh-Canada
14. kaleidocat
15. froggiepopple
16. kindle
17. LilKamea
18. regiusachan
19. Kwinks
20. Nekoshoujo

honorary;
Ray Ablack
Spinner
Mrs. Sinclair
Chantay
Danny



reasons;
because even Charlotte doesn't think these two are meant for each other.
because they are completely overrated.
because Declan doesn't care about anyone but himself.
because Holly never trusted him.
because she said she loved him. He said.... nothing.
because their relationship dragged Holly down.
because no one supported them together, for good reason!
because this ship has sailed. And hopefully it'll never come back!
Because he was with her best friend before he was with her.
Because he helped ruin her friend’s relationship (Spinner and Jane).
Because they don’t even have the same taste in music.
Because she turned him down when he asked her out the first time.
Because he needed advice from Sav and Anya to get her to like him.
Because she blocked his ears so she wouldn’t have to listen to him.
Because he was scared to make his mommy mad.
Because she had to twist his arm to get him to stand up for her to his mom.
Because he made Fiona do his dirty work and learn about Holly J.
Because Fiona barley had to do anything to get between them.
Because he thought he could actually buy her love.
Because Holly J Sinclair does NOT need a sugar daddy.
Because she was happy when his food spilled all over him.
Because he had to lock her up to get her to listen to him.
Because he didn’t even try to understand her family’s financial situation.
Because he wanted things to be his way, end of story.
Because "how much do I have to spend before you'll do what I say?" financially controlling, much?
Because she lost sight of her dreams when she was with him.
Because accepting his money made her feel "gross".
Because she thought he cheated on her… trust issues?
Because she lost sight of herself while she was with him.
Because even Mrs. Sinclair thinks she’s better off without him.
Because he didn't even want her to come on the Yale trip.
Because (sarcastically) "You really know how to make a girl feel wanted."
Because "you are better off." We agree!
Because he basically kidnapped her!
Because "that's what I am to you? A problem?"
Because she broke up with him over the phone! LOL.
Because they couldn't even survive the long distance thing.
Because "I sort of hitched my wagon to you instead of making my own way."
Because "You’re not the guy I thought you were Declan. "
Because he tried to bribe his way back to her.
Because he thought he could pay off her problems.
Because he doesn't care about her personal life.
Because she basically told him to GTFO.
because "I thought we were part of each other’s dreams, but you only wanna make me a part of yours. "
because I don’t need your help. I need time to figure this out, away from you.
Because "a relationship online and on the phone that’s the problem."
because their cheesy moments are gag worthy.
because he hacked into her email account.
because she turned him into a sappy, whipped, puppy dog.
because he doesn't think she can do things for herself.
because their relationship was force fed to us.
because before they were together they were independent. Now they are co-dependent.
because hes borderline abusive.
because they are a bad version of Chuck and Blair.
because Holly j is way too much for Declan to handle
because he clouded her judgment.
because its not just a necklace. "Nothing comes for free, Holly J."
because he was oh so thrilled when she decided to go to the Yale visit.
because he takes away her fire.
because he never takes her seriously.
because she broke up with him, and he laughed at her.
because she was horrified at the thought of him proposing.
because she deleted all his photos from her phone! *snicker*
because they don't like the same music.
because he doesn't listen to her.
because he always expects her to drop everything for him
because "Please, Declan. You barely know me. I am not your type."
because "You're digging up info on the Internet? A bit pathetic for you."
because his definition of "knowing" her is stalking her online!
because "Here I thought this was a conversation, not a script."
because "Please let this be anyone but... number one match, Declan Coyne! Damn it."
because he freaking muted her so he didn't have to hear her talk!
because "I'm still not talking to you and I'm not going to listen to your crap either way"
because he had to lock her up to get her to listen to him.
because "Are you done?" wow, gentleman.
because "My daughter was humiliated, if not assaulted in front of the school"
because "I guess chivalry is dead."
because "You know what's less funny? How you sat there and said nothing while they skewered me."
because he'd rather please his mommy then do anything for her.
because "Look, we both know I have to move away eventually. If we're never allowed to see each other, what's the point?" LOL!
because "If we can't be up front about this, I don't want to do it at all." "It's not possible." "Neither are we."
because they got together and broke up three times in the span of 2 episodes.
because he only dated her for the challenge.
because they barely knew each other when they started dating.
because he didn't care to defend their relationship in the slightest.
because he treats their relationship like a joke.
because he practically stalked her.
because he was still dating someone else when he went after her!
because he was controlling from day 1.
because he LOCKS her in a recording studio and puts her on mute, not only to force her to listen to him,
but to ensure that he doesn't have to listen to her.
because their mothers don't approve and neither do we.
because they make epic proclamations of love after dating for one day
because he was acting like an obsessive freak
because he wouldn't respect that Holly J was in a relationship with Sav
because he used Sav, his former friend, in order to get Holly J alone
because he was being creepy and hiding in corners, watching her
because he said "I love you, Holly J" and all she said was "I know"
because Love Lockdown proved that he learned nothing from the last time they broke up
because he told her he isn't, but he's still using money to solve his problems
because Holly J said NO repeatedly
because he had to use his sister just to get her to stay the night
because he wouldn't call Holly J a cab
because he pretended to care about Fiona's drinking problem just so Holly J would take pity on him
because he refused to take no for an answer, even when it came to unwanted sex
because he stalked her outside school
because he stalked her at work
because he stalked her by phone
because Declan forced Holly J's face to him when she didn't do so on her own.
because Declan basically trapped her at Fiona's condo.
because Holly J's hesitation to say he 'didn't rape her' is even more evidence that she's emotionally traumatized by what he did to her.
because the horrible storyline in Love Lockdown could have been used in Hide & Seek.
because the episode in which Declan rapes Holly J is called Love Lockdown - a huge clue that it wasn't consensual.
because Holly J felt pressured by Declan.
because Fiona - Declan's own twin sister - yelled at Declan as soon as she realized what had happened to Holly J.
because even if Declan was her boyfriend still, it'd count as rape.
because how could Declan not notice her body's discomfort or her facial expressions?
because Declan knew afterward what he did and he didn't give a damn - he's got his arms behind his head, naked, and being all smug, ugh.
because he admitted that he does nothing but hurt her.
because he still hopes they'll reunite someday despite how much he hurts her.
because he's still trying to control her "that's a when, not an if, right?"
because he raped her.





quotes;

Holly J: So are you excited I’m coming?
Declan: Yeah, I’m happy… kind of.
Holly J: You’re sort of happy I’m coming on the Yale trip?

Holly J (sarcastically): You really know how to make a girl feel wanted.

Holly J: I’m just so stupid!
Mrs. Sinclair: I know that’s not true.
Holly J: He’s cheating on me mom.
Mrs. Sinclair: Oh honey. I am so sorry.
Holly J: Declan is not perfect but I never though he’d do this.
Mrs. Sinclair: He’s a spoiled rich kid. He thinks he can live by different rules.
I know this hurts now, but you are better off.

Holly J: Hey, it’s me. I really didn’t want to do this over the phone.
This long distance thing, it’s driving me insane. And it made me realize
that I sort of hitched my wagon to you instead of making my own way.
And if you’re hooking up with some high class skank right now…
I really hope she’s worth it. You’re not the guy I thought you were Declan.
So, we’re done.

Mrs. Sinclair: What, is this his attempt to bribe his way back?

Holly J: Declan, I have my SAT’s.
Declan: Reschedule them.
Holly J: I also have to help my parents move.
Declan: That’s boring. Okay fine, I’m already paying for you not to work,
I might as well pay for the movers too.
Holly J: It’s not that easy.
Declan: I thought the plan was that we’d visit each other.
Just come for a few days. Please.
Holly J: I just can’t.
Declan: Come on, how much will I have to spend before you do what I ask?
Chantey: Just drop it preppy.
Holly J: Go home. Just go.
Holly J: I’m not going anywhere.
Declan: Excuse me?
Holly J: I can’t take your money.
Declan: What? What’s going on?
Holly J: It makes me feel gross!
Declan: Holly J, money exists to solve problems.
Holly J: So that’s what I am to you? A problem.

Declan: What’s wrong with you?
Holly J: I thought we were part of each other’s dreams, but you only
wanna make me a part of yours.
Declan: Holly J…
Holly J: I don’t need your help. I need time to figure this out, away from you.
Declan: Yeah but you’ve been away from me. Okay, a relationship online
and on the phone that’s the problem.
Holly J: Well then maybe we should go on a break.

Declan: The Tessas are giving a private concert this Saturday. I've got two backstage passes... what do you say?
Holly J: Thanks, but I'm busy.
Declan: What?
Holly J: Earth to planet Declan, I hate the Tessas. And I'm working Friday so that everyone else can go on a date. Don't you listen?
Declan: Couldn't you get someone to cover?
Holly J: Please, Declan. You barely know me. I am not your type.
Declan: Is that a challenge?

Declan: You have to help me. I need the deets on Holly J Sinclair.
Fiona: The dragon lady of Degrassi? Why?
Declan: Because she says I don't know her. Whatever that means. I have her on Facebook, her Twitter ID--
Fiona: You're digging up info on the Internet? A bit pathetic for you.

Declan: It was mostly Fiona bribing all your friends for me.
Holly J: I don't know much about you.

Holly J: Here I thought this was a conversation, not a script.

Holly J: Please let this be anyone but... number one match, Declan Coyne! Damn it.

Holly J: I'm still not talking to you and I'm not going to listen to your crap either way so you better save us some time and let me out--
(Declan mutes her)
Declan: Are you done?

Declan (to Jane): Just trying to convince La Presidenta to skip class.
Holly J: No dice, I have math to hand in.
Declan (to Anya, shoving papers in her face): Can you hand this in for us? Thanks, Anya! (She walks off, disgusted)

Mrs. Sinclair: My daughter was humiliated, if not assaulted in front of the school and we're talking damage control?

Holly J: Hey! I guess chivalry is dead.
Declan: That's not funny, Holly J.
Holly J: You know what's less funny? How you sat there and said nothing while they skewered me.
Declan: My hands were kinda tied okay, you saw my mother in there.
Holly J: Yeah, I noticed, are you scared to make your mommy mad?

Declan: Look, we both know I have to move away eventually. If we're never allowed to see each other, what's the point?

Holly J: If we can't be up front about this, I don't want to do it at all.
Declan: It's not possible.
Holly J: Neither are we.




previous threads;
#1 - Even Charlotte thinks he's not the right choice for her.
#2 - Because he'll spend and spend until she does what he says.

related threads;
{Douche Bag} Anti-Declan Coyne #1: Because those thick eyebrows make him blind to other's emotions
http://www.fanforum.com/f191/episode...nick-62973115/



__________________
i only want us when
it's what you want, too
. . . . . . so, i'll wait

Last edited by JustMe2000; 08-31-2011 at 08:22 PM
mellifluouscloud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 09:44 PM
  #2
Master Fan

 
Nekoshoujo's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 15,477
Whoa that was fast! I was just going back to read what everyone said today in the last one. haha
__________________
laughing all the way~
Asya | Blacklist | ♥
Nekoshoujo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 09:45 PM
  #3
New Fan
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
Add me to this ****. I love Holly J, and theres not a ship I actually like for her... So yeah I guess I'm just meh.
LilKamea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2011, 09:53 PM
  #4
Elite Fan

 
kaleidocat's Avatar

Moderator of ...
Degrassi
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 37,543
Thanks for starting! No, I wasn't going to start the new one...just trying to get the other one finished and closed so I could update the board guide. Can't wait to see what you do with the OP!
__________________
What Was Left Unsaid | The Past Hasn't Gone Anywhere
kaleidocat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 03:46 AM
  #5
Master Fan

 
Oh-Canada's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,007
TFTNT!

I am getting more and more worried about Friday's episode the closer we get to it...

I wish that an actual organization would speak out against LL. Right now it's just us fans, so people are brushing it off like it's just a bunch of annoyed Sav/Holly J-ers. I wonder who we could contact about this.
__________________
Erin
Oh-Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 01:09 PM
  #6
Dedicated Fan
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 856
I love the OP. Holy ****, there's so much evidence against them.

Also, please add me! I didn't know I never asked to be added.
__________________
Lexiness or Lexi~ #7 Adam Supporter!~ #22 Misfits Supporter!~
Supporter/Shipper of The Misfits, Eclare, Kenna, Fadam, Savvy J, Elitz, Ziley, Grossmance/Douchebag, Folly J, Team Bianca
http://lexikatness.tumblr.com/
regiusachan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 01:13 PM
  #7
Loyal Fan
 
EClare_x3's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,528
LOL, there really are a lot of reasons on the OP. I never looked at it before.
EClare_x3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 01:28 PM
  #8
Extreme Fan
 
necklace's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,750
I just wanted to adress something from the previous thread

Quote:
But the contradiction is that, fine, if she wanted Declan back... then why didn't she take him back in LL? Wasn't he ready to re-enroll in Degrassi and everything? That's what doesn't make sense. The opportunity was right there and not only did she not waver in her fidelity to Sav at that point (as much as the writers are trying to push this revisionist history now), she flat-out rejected him over... and over... and over. And ran away from him. And avoided him. It's true that she and Sav never established a long-term relationship. They're casual even now. And maybe that's all they were ever meant to be (I don't think so, but for argument's sake) -- but how does Declan re-enter the picture?! That's what I really don't get.
I said that I think the writers made it obvious that Holly J had feelings for Declan not that she wanted him back. It's possible to feel strongly about somebody but not wanting to actually be with them. I think that when Holly J broke up with Declan in Try Honesty, she really didn't plan on getting back together before they met in Yale once again. I think she needed to figure out some things on her own and she couldn't do it, while she was in a serious relationship. Having fun with Sav never got in the way of that, because she didn't have stronger feelings about him. I won't to venture further into the Savvy J territory, I don't want to upset their fans. This is simply the impression I got out of this storyline.

I guess that we will probably get Dolly J mentions in the next episode, it wouldn't have made sense to have Holly J mention him at all in Chasing Pavements. But we'll probably never hear about them again after season 10 ends. I think that's good since I really do not want to think about the mess that writers created with this plot. Them being together would send the most awful message.
necklace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 02:23 PM
  #9
Loyal Fan
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,291
Add me, please. I was waiting for the new thread to open to ask.
Kwinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 03:31 PM
  #10
Part-Time Fan
 
kindle's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 357


This is how I feel about the triangle. Well, minus the HJ hate that is implied here. haha. It made my day though.
__________________
kindle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 04:58 PM
  #11
New Fan
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
I used to like Declan/Holly J before season ten... and then he got all douche bag-yy. This may be off topic but did Declan rape Holly J in Love Lockdown? Because I remembered something like that being brought up in that episode and everything, and then in Holly J said she still loved him in Chasing Pavements so I dunno... I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed or whatever so could someone please elaborate for me?
LilKamea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 05:20 PM
  #12
Loyal Fan
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,291
Quote:
This may be off topic but did Declan rape Holly J in Love Lockdown? Because I remembered something like that being brought up in that episode and everything, and then in Holly J said she still loved him in Chasing Pavements so I dunno... I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed or whatever so could someone please elaborate for me?
Yes, he did rape her in LL. But the writers seem to think he didn't.

I don't even think Holly J realizes she was raped, since the show is trying to make it seem like what happened doesn't count. But even though Holly J doesn't think she was raped, she was.

Then again, regardless of whether she realizes what happened to her was rape or not, it's still odd for her to have feelings for this guy that completely disregarded hers. However, Holly J is a character on this show, so she's going to do whatever the writers want her to do. She's still in love with her rapist because the show doesn't acknowledge that what happened to her was rape.

Last edited by Kwinks; 04-12-2011 at 05:28 PM
Kwinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 05:25 PM
  #13
New Fan
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwinks (View Post)
Yes, he did rape her in LL. But the writers seem to think he didn't.

I don't even think Holly J realizes she was raped, since the show is trying to make it seem like what happened doesn't count. But even though Holly J doesn't think she was raped, she was.
Oh okay. So is like HJ in denial or something? Or maybe making herself think it was consensual because she thinks she still loves Declan/and or doesn't want to get him in trouble? Ughhh I hope this doesn't turn out like the whole Paige getting HIV thing, because some storylines are a little too important to just forget.
LilKamea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 05:35 PM
  #14
Loyal Fan
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,291
Quote:
Oh okay. So is like HJ in denial or something? Or maybe making herself think it was consensual because she thinks she still loves Declan/and or doesn't want to get him in trouble? Ughhh I hope this doesn't turn out like the whole Paige getting HIV thing, because some storylines are a little too important to just forget.
She's probably still in love with her rapist because the show doesn't acknowledge that what happened to her was rape.

But even if the show did, they could have ended up going the route where she still loves Declan, because in real life, there are girls who get raped by someone they know/are close to, and they end up not telling anyone because they still care about their rapist and don't want to get them in trouble.
Kwinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 07:25 PM
  #15
Addicted Fan

 
mellifluouscloud's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,759
I updated the OP as best as I could. It took me an obscenely long time and unfortunately I didn't have the hindsight to bookmark a lot of links when we were having all our really intense discussions, so if you guys have any quotes/statistics to add, please let me know. I'll probably add a "resources" list at some point too but I honestly don't have the energy to do it right now. But I hope everyone likes what's there. LilKamea, let me know if the new OP helps to answer your own questions.
__________________
i only want us when
it's what you want, too
. . . . . . so, i'll wait
mellifluouscloud is offline   Reply With Quote
Fan Forum  |  Contact Us  |  Fan Forum on Twitter  |  Fan Forum on Facebook  |  Archive  |  Top

Powered by vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2024.

Copyright © 1998-2024, Fan Forum.