Just Peachy.

It's never too late to join us

I was thinking that about Ryan. I was watching Wentworth on Prison Break and I think he would of been great in S3 and may of taken the show on a slightly dark route.

Gabriela

I rewatched the later half of season 2 last week through last night, and they really developed the character of Ryan very quickly - I think he was just in two episodes, and the first episode he was in was just at the very end, when they find Adam.

For season three, I think it would have been cool to see whether Joan and her mom actually discuss the God issue and Joan talking to God and Helen having her unique gift of seeing things in her dreams.

As far as Joan and her "army" - I guess I can't imagine Freidman (sp?) finding out about Joan talking to God. I can imagine everyone else finding out and actually accepting it to some extent except Freidman...he just seems very incapable of accepting something so nonscientific, and it would have been really interesting to see his reaction to that if she had told the group.

I think it would have been awesome to see how each of them reacted, especially Grace, Kevin, and Luke. We already kind of know how Adam reacted at the beginning of season 2, although I do wonder what his reaction would have been knowing that Joan talks to God but Joan also going up against Ryan since Adam really liked Ryan...

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I would have liked to see Joan and Adam stay apart, at least for awhile - I think it was time for Joan to explore who she is and what her purpose in life is, whether that's continuing to talk to God or go to college or go on an alternative route.

clueless01

You're right, it was basically a cliffhanger introduced in that last episode, they could have perhaps started integrating him earlier, just in the background, seeming like a good dude at first, with perhaps an odd vibe about him such as was shown at the end, with other's growing more impressed by him (adam, donations) and Joan still seeing something a bit weird. With the reveal in the last episode that he talked to God too, and was "evil". The revealation would have had a bigger impact if it he started integration into the show earlier.

I can maybe see Joan telling Helen, but I think it would take awhile, and it would take Helen confiding in Joan about her dreams first. Remembering that joan has previously been considered crazy for talking to God, and I don't think she would want to give anyone a reason to reconsider her sanity. So she'd have to be pretty certain in the confidant that they would believe her rather than question her sanity.

See, I never saw Joan actually telling them. At least not until near the end of season 3. I just kinda figured she'd have all these weird demands that she'd somehow have to convince them to follow, and then she'd let them in on the reason why, but not say God told her too, Ryan is evil (the real reason), rather make up something about Ryan being evil, telling only half the truth. I could see her getting Grace onside easily this way, and also Luke I think would follow, with her being his sister, and everything. I think it would be a harder struggle with Adam, with him thinking Ryan is a nice guy. But when push comes to shove, he'd believe Joan. This would help bring them closer (as friends), and pave a way for a reconciliation.
I agree to a certain respect, Gabriella, and I think Joan and Adam shouldn't get back together in the third season, but spend the time learning to trust each other and again and re-establishing their friendship, while Joan explores her own duty/destiny/tasks/whatever you want to call it. I would want them to get back together, but I think they can't rush back into that it'd be too unrealistic, and probably detrimental to their potential relationship, sometime in season 4 would be much better.

shadowcrawler05

I always figured Grace and Luke would figure the G-d thing out on their own. It seemed to me toward the end of season two that they were building a bit toward Grace figuring it out, through a lot of the comments she made and such. And Luke had noticed something weird all the way back in Recreation when 1) the guy at the liquor store was approving the guest list for their party and 2) when Joan noted at said party that she just "did what she was told." I think it would have been more interesting to see one of them approach her about G-d, not vice versa.

Couldn't agree more. I think it was a huge mistake giving Joan a steady boyfriend during the first season. At least, one in the 'true love' sense that Adam was supposed to be. She was still finding herself, and I think by hooking her and Adam up, they really sacrificed a lot of Joan's character. She was no longer looking for Joan Girardi, she was Joan - Adam's girlfriend. It really did a number on her interaction with G-d as well, because he turned into a relationship coach instead of a guide trying to lead Joan toward the self she wanted to find. If that makes any sense at all.

Just Peachy.

I like Joan and Adam, but I think that could be a valid point.

Gabriela

ooh - I hadn't thought about something like that! That would have been really awesome to see. Honestly, now that you mention it, I'm kind of surprised Luke hasn't already figured it out to some extent and questioned her about it b/c of the things you mentioned above and also because she's asked him a couple of times how God fits into science, the last time being in second season when she asks about where God is on the spectrum.

I did like in the second to last episode of season 2 Grace talking to Joan about how Joan has secrets - it was a side of their friendship we don't really see and it would have been really neat for them to explore that in season 3...

Just Peachy.

That was one of my favourite scenes. I think it really hit Joan how many secrets she was keeping from Grace and how it may help her if she opened up to Grace with what was going on.

clueless01

It did seem to be a bit of a turning point, and it was nice to see Joan/Grace friendship, those scenes were always great, even if a little scarce. They're such a entertaining combination.

Just Peachy.

True as Grace had known Joan the longest (in the friend sense).

shadowcrawler05

Personally, I would have loved to see more of Grace and Adam's friendship. I know I rag on Adam a lot (and I blame the writers much more than Chris, as I have found myself thoroughly enjoying his non-JoA work) but his friendship with Grace was always very interesting. They were good friends who had been through tough times and you could totally tell by the way they played off each other. One of my favorite background moments was in 'Requiem For a Third Grade Ashtray' when they're waiting for Joan by the stairs and they're standing there thumb wrestling.

I think they mention in the 'Common Thread' commentary that Amber and Becky had wanted to play a scene like that since the middle of the first season. I wish they would have given them a bit more, because the Joan-Grace interaction was seriously lacking in the second season. Personally, I always thought Grace would be the best candidate for finding out about G-d because 1) I always enjoyed they're interactions, such as "Thank you young man" (Bringeth It On), "You suck, dude" (Double Dutch), and "Young lady, substitutes can still send people to the office" (Romancing the Joan), 2) she always seemed like one of the better candidates to actually believe it. She knows Joan is special and she knows Joan is secretive and she's the only one that ever really went hardcore in questioning her about it. Off the top of my head, I can think of about four or five episodes, but I really need to go through each one to be more specific, and 3) She believes some pretty out there things. Like there being a giant supercomputer the government uses to sift through everyone's e-mail (which is actually sort of true) and that the CIA uses drivers license photos to get retina scans for everyone. Clearly, G-d is not the same as wiretapping, but still.

I also would have loved to see more interaction with the family. Both the family by itself and the family with the friends (Grace, Adam, maybe even Friedman. Couldn't care less about Glynis because the writing with her character was way too inconsistent.)

Gabriela

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed Glynis seemed to have major personality changes throughout the show

I like the idea of Grace and Adam's friendship developing more or at least the aundience seeing more of that, but I also found that they had a weird chemistry on the show - there's a scene in season 2 I believe where they are talking in the biology closet and she had greeted him sexily b/c she thought it was Luke. During that entire scene, I was thinking, "Oh no..are they have a Grace and Adam getting together moment?" I don't know - it was really bizarre b/c we really didn't get a lof of just those two together on the show, but when they did that, it had more chemistry than I cared for in their friendship, which really isn't the actors' faults.

It really is too bad that they didn't start developing Grace and Joan's friendship more during the first and second seasons. That scene by the fire is also one of my favorites of the entire show actually, and I have no idea why the writers didn't start progressing their friendship.

I don't remember, but they didn't know they were getting cancelled when they were doing the end of season 2 did they?

Just Peachy.

No I don't believe that the they knew that the show wouldn't be picked up for a 3rd season.

I forgot that Adam and Grace have known each other since they were kids.

shadowcrawler05

They knew very well that the show was on the bubble, i.e. at risk of not getting renewed. I think that's why Barbara Hall went with the cliffhanger, but personally, I prefer when writers of on-the-bubble shows wrap things up enough so that there are no super loose ends, but still enough potential for further storylines. (Or do what Brian Fuller did with Pushing Daisies - have two endings planned.) I really think they should have either brought Ryan in in the middle of the season, or left him out until the beginning of the third (which they didn't have, but still). I remember various members of the cast were telling fans to write in to CBS sometime in the last two to three months of the show, but the fans never organized until after it was canceled.

I had the opposite reaction. To me, they both looked mighty grossed/freaked out after Grace realized it was not Luke. It helped that she processed to taunt him a few times while he tried to be serious. It really just reminded me of conversations I've had with my own friends that I've known forever. That's not to say that Becky and Chris didn't share a certain chemistry, because they did, especially during the scene in 'Trial and Error' where Adam confesses that he cheated on Joan. But it always seemed more like a friendly chemistry more than a shippy kind.

Just Peachy.

I know its too late now. But its a shame that they could make a made for TV movie to finish the show. I hate it when a show finishes and it leaves you on the cliff

Gabriela

Since they knew the show had a chance of getting cancelled, they should have really ended it better, kind of like Gilmore Girls did (if anyone watches that show) - especially since they had ended the season before on a kind of cliffhanger with us not knowing what was going to be happening with Joan and God or even if she was really seeing God...

I have no idea why I felt weird chemistry with Adam and Grace - they never wrote their characters to be flirty with each other or anything at all like that...for me it just seemed like they had natural chemistry together despite their characters not really being like that at all. I'm weird