Amaranto

You and me and everyone.

azure angel

I can see why the dreamer fandom split into two ... especially after s2 and s3.

Amaranto

Did they?

Monkeyy

I wish I was here back then

Jasper1975

I wasn't on this board back then. Found it years later. But I was always lurking or then posting on the Roswell Spoiler thread, which was hopping. I don't remember a true split. But it was a long time go, LOL. But a lot of people were pissed, especially with Season 2. And the change in networks didn't help for Season 3...

I see the benefits of all three seasons because we did get a happy ending. I see it as their journey, one they had to get through to be able to get their ending... Thankfully we got the ending, otherwise, who knows... But it's led to healthy debates over the years.

azure angel

I'm fine that I wasn't here back then ... the disappointment would have been worse.

I know there is another thread here as SDs (spoiled dreamers): I found it - X

Amaranto

The link is not working?

I guess this board and the roswell spoiler thread went crazy when departure and busted aired

LeeryAndPotter

It's been a long time, but I think the 'split' was between people who felt Max/Liz were ruined by the end of season 2 and the ones who were happy they were back together. I think the tone of early season 3 might have contributed to it as well. All I really remember is that a lot of M/L fans were being negative, and I didn't really understand where it was coming from.

I think a big part of it is that I didn't actually start watching the show until the last part of season 2, and had to go back and watch the 'good old days' over the summer break. But I just loved the final moments of Departure so much and they made me a Max/Liz fan for life.

BTW - I am really grateful for this thread, because it is helping me write my crossover fic by refreshing my memory so much.

Jasper1975

I am one of the whole journey, the warts and all. There were flaws. Yeah, Season 2 alienated a lot of fans with the character of Max. And probably the couple too. When you really look it, you wonder should Liz have sacrificed everything for Max? She did make a lot of sacrifices.

But then you have Jason and Shiri's chemistry. And if you hung onto Season 3. You saw Max sacrifice to save Liz.

It makes you hold on. Most couples I would have been long gone, but these two. Can't help it. And still spinning and debating their angst nearly twenty years after the show ended. And writing fanfiction that puts new prospective on their angst LOL.

They were stronger by the end. Season 2 was bad, yes. I blame Max, but then I also blame Liz. She started it by listening to Future Max. All Max was a teenage boy being told by the love of his life, and his dream girl to go away, and be with Tess. He eventually listened, but only due to very alienating circumstances because they lost Alex, and the grief and the burden. And they ended up with major consequences.

He was a fool to believe Tess. But everyone believed her. Some might not of trusted her, but no one thought she would betray them, and help take Alex away from them.

In the end they got their happy ending. So, I could handle the low points.

Max didn't have many fans at the end of Season 2. And Season 3 didn't start off strong.

Roswell 10/2/00

I was always a Max fan. I got into Roswell in season 2 and I always rooted for Max. Then I eventually saw season one. I still was a Max fan even after all that.

LeeryAndPotter

I think a lot of people didn't try to see things from Max's perspective. Yes, we as the audience knew about Future Max, and why Liz did what she did. But Max, on the other hand, had absolutely no idea. All he knew is that Liz, for some reason, didn't want to be with him anymore--and he'd been in love with her his entire life. That was devastating for him, even without the Kyle set-up. Without Liz, he tried to bury himself in the only thing he felt he had left--his duty as 'King', which he had no idea how to do properly because he was just a teenager who had his heart broken. There were moments during the season where he's almost on the verge of getting her back, thinking that maybe there's a chance--only to have that torn away. The whole 'if you leave, our friendship is over' moment--that was Max literally hitting rock bottom.

Yeah, he made a ton of mistakes, but that only proved that he wasn't the person that Tess was trying to turn him into. It didn't fit him. When protecting his friends and standing up for what's right, Max was a born leader, but the second he tried to become a ruler everything fell apart. He was manipulated by Tess who--up until that point--had presented herself as a friend. You can almost feel the anger radiating off of him when he finds out about Alex. He hates her for what she did, but he hates himself even more for falling for it.

It's what makes his words to Liz at the end mean so much. He's saying that--after having failed and made so many mistakes--how he feels for her is the one thing that he knows he did right.

GAH--I need to rewatch season 2 at one point. I've done so many season 1 rewatches, but I've always stopped around the time Tess showed up because I didn't wanna deal with it. But, knowing that it all works out in the end, maybe it'll be easier to tolerate. Going to pick up my rewatch once the current season of the new show is over, so we'll see.

Monkeyy

What are you writing @LeeryAndPotteer?

Jasper1975

At the time it was easy to blame Max. Because Liz was strong enough to withstand her temptation with Sean Deluca. Max couldn't. But as time has gone by, I do see it with different eyes. That all of them, and in particular Max and Liz were teenagers and making mistakes. They loved each other. He didn't know about Future Max so how was he supposed to know. All he had was his dream girl pushing him away. Telling him to forget her, "that she didn't want to die because of his life", After he saved her life. Liz did feel guilty for saying it. But Max didn't know, so how would he have known? But Liz did start it so she shares some of the blame. Even if she had the better excuse. Doing it for the greater good assuming Future Max was telling the truth. She didn't want their love to come at the expense of Michael and Isabel. For Max, he was felled by hormones and he was a fool not to see what Tess was up to... So, Liz had the bigger excuse, but it's on both of them.

Max could have questioned the Vegas vision. Common sense sensed something was up with Liz. But then all hell broke loose once Alex died, and he started spending time with Tess and embracing his alien side, and learning more about Antar.

So true. They both made mistakes. They really were only teenagers. Age 16 thru 18 when we saw them. Once Alex died. It made everything real. The guilt and burden on Max because he was "leader". Someone was dead. Someone they let in the club. Or Liz did, which explains some of her obsession because she was one to bring him in. And now he was dead. They all screwed up. They didn't see Tess until it was too late. Despite her coming to town mysteriously, and playing with Max's head. But because she was one of them, they felt she was above approach. So they were blindsided. Now, I could see that it had to be hell for Max. It was easy to screw up when you're down and out, and he and Liz were fractured, so he was going to off the cliff...

When I do rewatches. I do the whole three seasons. Season 2 is not bad. It's watchable today compared to back in 2000. Plus I can fastforward the truly offensive Max and Tess scenes. Although I still have a hard time watching "End of the World" and the prom episode.

It was a very complex journey for them. They were stronger in the end. So I didn't mind the warts, and rocky points because it gets them to their happy ending. But it was hell of a ride. And neither of them look good... But we got their wedding, and epic proposal.

azure angel

Am I the only dreamer who hated Departure? not even the two seconds of Max and Liz in the end saved the episode for me, but I think that has a lot to do with the fact that I know how they handled s3 ..

Jasper1975

I am fine with because of how it ended. A complete opposite to Destiny. Which I do like for the first 3/4 of the episode, until they get to final scene at the pod chamber. Liz walking away, and to think that might have been the end shot if the Tabasco sauce campaign hadn't worked?

At least Departure which isn't perfect but I can fast forward those initial Max and Tess scenes. But you have the showdown at the pod chamber, after Liz, Maria and Kyle save the day. With Max's immediate reaction is to defend Liz in his showdown with Tess to Tess' ire.

And then end, with them in the each other's arms. I'll take it. It might not been perfect but if that had been the last scene. We could have seen that they had a chance. Max hadn't thought through the decision to let Tess leave. So, the ramifications of that decision would be felt with needing to find the baby.

So Season 3 didn't mean everything was rosey. They had angst to figure out. They tried. They were together more than they were apart in those initial episodes. I love Busted for the passion, and the twisted of it. I don't think it's that farfetched.

At least the consequences were felt. They didn't just ignore Season 2. By not ignoring it, it made them stronger in the end!