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Old 06-08-2020, 10:31 AM
  #46
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I couldn't care less about the MT scenes, Max and Liz were my only concern. For starters Liz deserved an apology as much as he apologized to Isabel .. and then things happened really fast.

& for s3 I feel like they wanted the baby plot at all costs, but it was forbidden for ML to have a proper conversation.
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Old 06-08-2020, 12:01 PM
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I don't think they wanted the baby plot at all cost. They developed it, but then sent Tess off. Which made no sense except they wanted to get rid of Tess for the foreseeable future, and yes have the baby be out there, but it was function to be out there as a hanging thread over them, but not much a of a deterrent to their relationship until Tess came back, and they had to figure out what they wanted.

And Tess took herself out of the situation, and Max ultimately put the baby up for adoption. I think it was a easy storyline to use as a backdrop to Max and Liz's reunion, and the angst that kept them from being happy. Along with the consequences of Utah, and how their parents were causing them problems, and things couldn't be as easy as they once were... back in the beginning.

It's been a bit since I saw Departure. So, I am only talking on memory. And yes, I am not saying Max didn't act like a jerk. Both were. Liz did apologize for the accusation, although she was right in the end. He needed to apologize to Isabel. He blackmailed her into staying, and threatened her.

He was an ass to Liz, but he was by far worse with Isabel, and both he and Liz had their issues during that time, and were in their own ways. Liz started it. So, he slept with someone else. He doesn't need to apologize for that, or getting someone else pregnant. Because she told him to leave her alone. I think the way they ended things before the chamber, when he thought he was leaving in the good-bye was a lot of regret, and almost an apology. But they didn't know if they were coming back, so they left the final scene as them together, so at least fans had a hope... Thankfully we got a much happier ending in Season 3.

It was a messy storyline. The baby, and the parental interference was a easy storyline to use as a backdrop for Season 3. Anything else that was consequence of Season 2 was too messy, and complicated, and they were on a new network... so they didn't want a lot of backstory complicating the story. Which is why Future Max was ignored...

But that is me. I was more of a Liz fan back then. Although the years have allowed me to see that Max didn't have it easy. A lot of burden and regret.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:55 PM
  #48
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I think it's obvious Jason Katims wanted the baby plot at all costs, everyone was shocked that it wasn't & that was the beginning of the end but thank God we got a worthy ending.
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Old 06-08-2020, 04:01 PM
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I don't know. They wrote out Tess, and put the baby storyline in the background but hanging over Max and Liz's reunion. And even went further in the back of them in the second half of Season 3 before coming back full blast with Tess's return. I think they saw it as a soapy storyline. It's pretty standard stuff. You would expect it of course.

But you don't expect it in a struggling show, and with your central duo unless it's happening to them. A much better story if human Liz got pregnant by a alien. Or Michael and Maria.

Now the sex is something they probably set up in End of the World, but went dormant on it until they unleashed it on us. I really can't see where they were planning the storyline (that we ended up with) until they had to write out Colin. And they decided to do a big bang exit, with a lot of angst, and consequences. It tested everyone. Messed things up royally.

I have said it before, the story I thought we headed for was Max, Liz and Sean Deluca triangle once Vegas was over. Tess and Kyle seemed to be pairing, or that was intention until they wrote out Colin and decided to go in a drastic new direction. Where everything flipped around, and things changed.

We don't know of course. I think they saw the baby as soapy, and a consequence but they were quick to write out the storyline, and move it to the background.

If they wanted the storyline. They could have had the baby born by the end of the season, and really have messed up Max and Liz. They didn't. They kicked it to the curb for the season except that the notion of it was hanging over them.
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:10 PM
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I guess we will never know the truth but there was also the fact that JK didn't care about Liz at all, he wrote some of the worst anti Liz episodes..
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:12 PM
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and they obviously wanted to explore Max/Tes which luckily they did in the worst way, almost destroying Max's character in the process LOL
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
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I guess we will never know the truth but there was also the fact that JK didn't care about Liz at all, he wrote some of the worst anti Liz episodes..
Although Liz came out of the debacle much better than Max. She did it to avenge Alex's death, and before, with Future Max. She did it for the greater cause. She looked a lot better so I doubt they hated her character that much. When you think about it. You had to wonder if they liked Max. Given he acted like a jerk, alienated his sister; blackmailed and threatened her. And then was cold and demanding.

It was a hard time to be Max. Being leader, and "King". The grief, and the guilt and the regret caused a lot of damage.

Still, he looked far worse than Liz did.

I think it was because so much of was exploring the alien's past. It made you wonder, but still Liz did pretty good in all it.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:03 PM
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I've read that Katims' favorite character was Max and he couldn't believe how people were reacting to him in the last few episodes.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:24 PM
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Of course writers, and showrunners. Even actors like the drama of it. They don't necessarily react like fans do. We love our characters, and couples and we don't take kindly to angst that we don't think is warranted. Especially when they screw up our favorite couple. Of course we're going to look at it differently. Of course we often don't like them messing with our couples. So we're inclined to hate everything. But still, they look at it as a challenge and making things interesting. At the time, it all looked worse than it does with hindsight of twenty years LOL.

I look at Max actions slightly different now. I see it as grieving and the burden once Alex dies. Also spending time with Tess let her play with his mind. Neither were thinking that rationally, but Liz had the better excuse. Max was a teenage boy felled by hormones, and weakness around a certain blonde when Liz who was faced with a similiar temptation; resisted. Of course she knew of the baby by the end. So, that was awesome birth control and restraint. She stopped herself with Sean. Max didn't. He often was a mess when he didn't have Liz with him on something.

It was a hell of a time. But the way Max was reacting most of all with Isabel. Liz was her own obsessive self, being not nearly as abrasive. She had a clear mission. She was solving Alex's death, and even then was turning off Maria before she found something that turned Maria around.

Yeah, writers don't necessarily see something the way fans reading or watching something does.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:01 PM
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I wonder if he ever regretted going on that route .. JK i mean.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:16 PM
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The show was struggling and they thought they were throwing something against the wall to see if it would stick. Like they did bringing Tess in Season 1. She was supposed to be a season finale reveal, but struggling ratings forced them to bring in her earlier, and use her for the last arc which got progressively darker. But the rating slightly rebounded, and the show was saved by the network and with the campaign by fans.

They probably though they would giving their Romeo and Juliet something to fight against, and rise above so they are stronger in the end. Assuming they weren't dead in the end like the real tale. But even then they defied Romeo and Juliet but surviving their brush with death. Making a grand sacrifice in the process.

We fans would have preferred if they found another way to make it angsty. The sex was one thing. The baby was a bridge too far. I don't even think I would do that if I was writing the show. i could see the sex, but that other thing, no way.

They thought it was challenge. Of course I think Jason K. was early in his career, and he might not make the same choices today. Going along to Vegas, you didn't think the show would make that turn, and go the direction it would go.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:45 PM
  #57
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I don't see how the baby plot could have helped the show ... on the contrary
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:53 PM
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It didn't help for sure. They simply needed a way that was plausible to pin it on Tess, and to want them to get off Earth, and back to Antar... Showcase Michael's decision to pick Maria and angsty for Max and Liz in their bittersweet goodbye. They loved each other so much, and they couldn't be together due to circumstance.

Otherwise no plausible way to think they would leave their lives on Earth, or for Max and Isabel to leave their parents. If there was a baby, then that changes things. Shows how far Michael has come. Then have Liz and Maria find out the truth, and come and save the day.

Of course we don't know what their first storyline was, if they hadn't wrote out Colin. Would they still have the baby, and almost departure from Earth.

There was no other reason for the baby except to be a plotpoint. Then it was used as consequences, and to hang over Max and Liz's reunion to feed Liz's resentment so that she could eventually explode.
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Over twenty years ago...
One shooting. One healing. Soulmates were discovered...
Death may have tried interceding but they could never die
True love began to flourish among the challenges
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azure angel (View Post)
I've read that Katims' favorite character was Max and he couldn't believe how people were reacting to him in the last few episodes.
I know the cast at the end of season 2 were totally fed with the WB network and how they were cancelled and how storylines were going. Emiile was in tears over her storyline and stormed out of Katism office from what I heard. Colin was devasted they killed his character off when he said he would guest star and work around his movie schedule because he loved the show so much.

Dian Fehr aka Amy Deluca was let go as well and went to film the TV show Rescuse Me but wanted to gust star. Hence why you never see her in season 3.

Jason was sick and was filmomg the Shipping News when they were in the middle of filming Departure that and payed for all of the over time of the crew so they could finish the season on time.

I heard once they were let go of the WB the drama stopped on UPN.
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Old 06-10-2020, 09:28 AM
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I also have heard there was drama behind the scenes. The WB was blatantly messing with the storylines, and telling them what to do. The ratings were struggling, so the show didn't have the leverage to say no. But you can tell it was far from what they were envisioning in Season 1. As Season 2 was a mess creatively, and what the ended up doing alienated fans...
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Over twenty years ago...
One shooting. One healing. Soulmates were discovered...
Death may have tried interceding but they could never die
True love began to flourish among the challenges
October 6, 1999 began a incredible journey - Max and Liz forever!
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