[stilldreaming]

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) I find Endor to be an interesting locale. And Tatooine was in there too.

I also agree with the article that Tatooine was more interesting in ANH too... but whatever. Endor's my least favorite OT locale, but it doesn't ruin the movie for me or anything. And I don't hate the Ewoks at all. They're not my favorite SW aliens, but far from my least favorite too. They work.

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) Luke certainly wasn't going to get involved with Leia after ESB. Luke/Leia is a much duller ship than Han/Leia anyway.

Well, unless they fall for each other and THEN find out they're brother and sister (okay, so I like AU and I like angst...) I don't really have a problem with them being brother and sister, but it WAS kind of clumsily done. I have no problem with Han/Leia... and I don't think Luke did either, so I kind of wonder WHY Lucas made the decision to make them brother and sister but... whatever. It works well enough, but it could have been better.

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) the writer did manage to point some real faults in ROTJ, but they're things the film easily survives. There was also a lot of being incredibly anal and nitpicking over things nobody in their right mind would pay attention to. And the writer needs to learn some respect for the acting abilities of Harrison and Carrie. ROTJ was a great film. It has faults, yes, but the good points more than outweigh them. And yes the tone was a little different from the previous too films, but it fits with them quite well nonetheless, unlike the prequels.

That's basically how I feel about it as well... ROTJ is my least favorite of the OT, from a glass-half-empty perspective, but that also makes it (probably, I don't really bother to rank these things) my third favorite movie of all time. I don't like Han as well in ROTJ as in ANH or ESB, but I don't think that's Harrison, I think it's the lines he was given... and it's believable, the character changes in a way that makes sense. I personally think he was cooler when he was more of a scoundrel, but it wouldn't have made any sense for him to stay that way either. I have no problem with Carrie's acting in any of the OT. The Luke/Vader/Palpatine scenes were amazingly acted, amazingly directed, amazingly done. All three of the OT films have a distinct tone. It might not be great if ANH and ESB had a similar tone that was tossed out the window for ROTJ, but that's not the case... each of those films has its own character. They're all different, but they all go together too.

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) One of the things I love about ROTJ was its triumphant upbeat tone, and that may be what the haters can't stand.

Possibly. I can see what they're saying... in the first two movies we see our heroes make sacrifices for their cause, and we really don't see that from any of the "good guys" in ROTJ. All of the characters seem to have gone through major changes since the end of ESB and we don't get to SEE that. It's not that there aren't poignant scenes though.... and as much as I love the feelings that ESB evokes, I also love the triumphant feel of ROTJ.

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post) Also, screw the whole planet of wookiees idea. I for one am glad they DIDN'T do that in ROTJ. I've never been a big fan of wookiees or chewbacca. We saw the planet of wookiees in ROTS and it was a bore.

No argument here. Chewie was great. A hundred Chewies, we really don't need.

[FreedomsBullets]

Stilldreaming, thanks for the link, but I probably won't read it. I'm too defensive, it would just make me angry and grumpy.

8. Uninteresting Locales Endor pales next to Tatooine, Hoth, and Bespin. You'd have to ask someone who grew up in a more exotic climate what it looked like to them... a big forest was probably pretty cool to Luke, but not so much to someone who grew up with forests all around.

As someone who grew up in a forested area I can completely dispute this. I loved Endor.

15. Surprise! They’re Brother and Sister! Even when I was 12, I thought "I know. Somehow, I've always known" was the dumbest line ever, especially in context. It felt like a cheap way to close off the love triangle we had in the first movie without anyone really getting hurt.

I'm not bothered by this at all. It seemed perfectly acceptable to me. I would have written Leia's line a little differently, since it doesn't really make sense. Maybe had some surprise on her side, or disbelief. But as a whole I have no issues with them being siblings, and I don't necessarily think it was only done to resolve the love triangle. It works for the story. Even if they hadn't been siblings I think Leia would have ended up with Han. She never seemed all that interested in Luke IMO. The only time she ever kissed Luke romantically was to make Han mad and "prove" that she didn't have feelings for him.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by stilldreaming (View Post) Possibly. I can see what they're saying... in the first two movies we see our heroes make sacrifices for their cause, and we really don't see that from any of the "good guys" in ROTJ. All of the characters seem to have gone through major changes since the end of ESB and we don't get to SEE that. It's not that there aren't poignant scenes though.... and as much as I love the feelings that ESB evokes, I also love the triumphant feel of ROTJ.

We certainly get to see that the characters have changed. I don't feel a need to see it actually happening. There is general attitude kicking around that a story and its character portrayal are not worthwhile unlss the characters change over the course of the story. That attitude is bull. As for sacrifice, Vader's sacrifice is enough for the film. He's one of the good guys by the time he dies. His death is equivalent to Kenobi's in ANH.

[basenji]

I have to disagree with 49. There actually was a scene homage in Wars: The medal scene is taken straight from Triumph of the Will. 20's also wrong, but I always considered Boba Fett overrated anyway.

The ones I agree with:

1. <-Hates Ewoks
3.
7. Burp jokes, yeah.
9. Have I mentioned I hate Ewoks?
11. Though "Jedi Rocks" is much, MUCH worse than "Lapti Nek".
12. Why was Threepio on that mission in the first place?
13. That always bugged me that Obi-Wan is physically there.
15. I now vomit a little whenever Luke and Leia kiss.
19. A lot of stupid coincidences. And it was so nice of Jabba to position everyone just right for Luke's plan.
25. At least she admits she was on coke at the time.
28. So it's a buddy movie?
29. I like the Empire, but I can't believe their technology is so lame. An aside: Are you willing to bet that A-wing pilot was drunk?
30. Ignoring the logic of torturing machines, LOL torture is funny. It should be noted that when Luke is tortured later, it's not nearly as terrifying as when Leia and Han were.
32. It gets even worse in the latest edition, with Hayden Christensen as Ghost!Anakin.
33. Unrealistic indeed.
34. Of course.
41. But they're Jedi. Of course they're liars.
46. In addition to the most redundant line ever, Ackbar's squid people are called the Mon Calamari. That there are more squid people in Jedi than black people or female people says something. In terms of squid people, I personally prefer the extras from Jabba's palace, the Quarren. They look like Cthulhu.
47. And here we go again with the incompetent Empire, a regular trope in the Star Wars universe ever since Tarkin refused to launch fighters.

[basenji]

Oh, here's George before Congress in 1988 saying how special editions (and macekre, colorization, and a whole bunch of other things we nerds tend to view as evil) are evil:

Save Star Wars

[sum1]

Originally Posted by basenji (View Post) I have to disagree with 49. There actually was a scene homage in Wars: The medal scene is taken straight from Triumph of the Will. 20's also wrong, but I always considered Boba Fett overrated anyway. The ones I agree with: 1. <-Hates Ewoks 3. 7. Burp jokes, yeah. 9. Have I mentioned I hate Ewoks? 11. Though "Jedi Rocks" is much, MUCH worse than "Lapti Nek". 12. Why was Threepio on that mission in the first place? 13. That always bugged me that Obi-Wan is physically there. 15. I now vomit a little whenever Luke and Leia kiss. 19. A lot of stupid coincidences. And it was so nice of Jabba to position everyone just right for Luke's plan. 25. At least she admits she was on coke at the time. 28. So it's a buddy movie? 29. I like the Empire, but I can't believe their technology is so lame. An aside: Are you willing to bet that A-wing pilot was drunk? 30. Ignoring the logic of torturing machines, LOL torture is funny. It should be noted that when Luke is tortured later, it's not nearly as terrifying as when Leia and Han were. 32. It gets even worse in the latest edition, with Hayden Christensen as Ghost!Anakin. 33. Unrealistic indeed. 34. Of course. 41. But they're Jedi. Of course they're liars. 46. In addition to the most redundant line ever, Ackbar's squid people are called the Mon Calamari. That there are more squid people in Jedi than black people or female people says something. In terms of squid people, I personally prefer the extras from Jabba's palace, the Quarren. They look like Cthulhu. 47. And here we go again with the incompetent Empire, a regular trope in the Star Wars universe ever since Tarkin refused to launch fighters.

1: The ewoks aren't great but the way people get so traumatised by them bewilders me.

3: Load of bull.

7: They weren't burp jokes. They were just burps. I REALLY don't see what's the big deal. This has to be one of the stupidiest objections to ROTJ. "Oooh, that creature burped, I'm scarred for life! It RUINED the film!"

9: If you want battles that make sense, you're watching the wrong franchise. This is the franchise where the elite imperial stormtroopers run around in tons of armor that doesn't protect them and can't shoot straight (ANH, etc). The ewok battle was fun.

11: Lapti Nek and Yub Nub aren't great, but they hardly ruin the film. The replacements in the SE are terrible.

12: Oh come on. Lucas and co obviously wanted to have all the main team involved. Star Wars doesn't has to make sense.

13: Didn't bug me. They didn't give us a rule book on how jedi ghosts are supposed to function. He's still probably incorporeal, just capable of imitating corporeality.

15: I think you enjoy being horrified by that.

19: Because the first two films were oh so perfectly logical? Get into the spirit of fun and quit quibbling over nothing.

25: It takes a lack of perception to fail to see that Carrie did a fine job.

28: It's hardly just a buddy movie and while the opening crawl doesn't start as well as the other two crawls, it's hardly a serious point against the film.

29: Again making the mistake of expecting it all to be perfectly logical and reaiistic.

30: I really don't see how the droid torture is meant to be a comic moment.

32: It takes a truly begrudging spirit to begrudge the Vader redemption story. And do they seriously expect Anakin to appear a total mess in ghost form?

33: Because Star Wars is all about realism?

34: Stormtroopers were never impressive in the previous films.

41: That point in the article was just plain dumb and showed a major inability to understand what was said in the films.

46: You mean you can't tell that the Mon Cal are fish people, not squid people?

47: Exactly, ever since ANH, NOT some problem unique to ROTJ.

[stilldreaming]

Originally Posted by basenji (View Post) 11. Though "Jedi Rocks" is much, MUCH worse than "Lapti Nek".

Lapti Nek is only bad if you listen to it on the soundtrack... especially the English version. In the movie it's really unobtrusive, just one of many things going on in that scene. The reason GL said he wanted to replace it was that it was dated... which was true, but why go and replace it with a song that's already dated again, was never really "cool" to begin with, and is much much more difficult to ignore.

Yub Nub was kind of corny, but I like it. "Celebrate the love!" That's what ROTJ was all about... love. No wonder GL hated it?

[FreedomsBullets]

I ended up reading the list since everyone was talking about it. There were some decent points, but I don't think any of them added up to ROTJ being a bad film.

Yub Nub was kind of corny, but I like it. "Celebrate the love!" That's what ROTJ was all about... love. No wonder GL hated it?

BURN!

[BehrItAll]

I didn't read the silly list. I love ROTJ and those people sound so nit-picky.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by BehrItAll (View Post) I didn't read the silly list. I love ROTJ and those people sound so nit-picky.

[FreedomsBullets]

ROTJ is my favorite of the SW films, so I really don't understand the nitpicking.

[sum1]

Particluarly seeing as nits are icky and not nice to pick.

[BehrItAll]

I knew many people who's their favorite is RotJ.

[FreedomsBullets]

It's a really enjoyable film.

[BehrItAll]

It is