laurelgirl120

RE: your Discussion Question.

I'll take a stab at this. After Odo takes Kira in his arms and tells her he loves her, the following events take place:

1. Odo breaks into a discussion between O'Brien and Bashir they talk about how 'creepy' it is that Laas is being fog, and whining about why Laas can't do this when no one else is around.

2. The encounter with the Klingons where Laas kills one of them.

3. Sisko's extremist xenophobia about Changelings, and his decision to side with Martok and not Odo (a betrayal of trust in Odo's mind). And then Sisko's zinger about changing shapes "not being a good idea." The coup de gras is relieving Odo of duty (another betrayal of trust).

4. Quark's speech about Odo's natural form being "more than a humanoid's genes can handle" and how creeped out Kira would be if she saw him as 'goo.'

5. Odo conversation with Laas that reinforces all the things above about fear, distrust and hate.

On the heels of all this anti-Changeling sentiment, Odo has a conversation with Kira. We can infer that by unspoken agreement (they probably never discussed it at all), Odo remains in his humanoid facade at all times with Kira, including their most intimate moments. He has just been assaulted with all this negative stuff about Changelings and Odo, with his fragile psyche and his predisposition toward uncertainty about himself that has in the past even taken the form of self-hate and self-loathing, isn't feeling really good about himself. So on the one hand Odo sees how proud and superior Laas is about being a Changeling, and on the other hand he sees how humanoids view him, and his resentment toward humanoids builds. The one person who Odo thinks he can trust is Kira, and from his perspective she lets him down. She defends Sisko's actions, and then she reinforces everything Laas has told him by saying she fell in love with the humanoid facade. And while Kira certainly never meant that as an insult, in Odo's current state of mind, that's how he sees it. So now he lumps Kira in with all the other Solids and their Changeling biases. His bitterness over the unjust treatment of Laas (and by extension, of him) spills out in his reaction to Kira's words. I don't think Odo was consciously trying to hurt her - he was speaking his mind and that 'blunt instrument' came down on Kira.

I think Odo was so wrapped up in himself - his resentment at humanoids and feeling betrayed by the people he thought of as his friends, his guilt over entreating Laas to stay on the station and thereby being in the position to be arrested, his conflicts about himself, playing the part of a humanoid when he was really a Changeling. I think all this added up to Odo thinking his relationship with Kira was something of a mockery. He was trying to be something he wasn't and in his mind that defrauded everything as far as he and Kira were concerned.

What's interesting about Odo's confession to Kira that part of him wants to be with Laas out in space searching for other Changelings is that at that point he had no reason to believe Laas would survive. As far as Odo was concerned, the Klingons would execute him. He was just verbalizing a fantasy that would never happen.

Kira was sadly the innocent victim in all of this. Her only 'crime,' if you could call it that, was not giving Odo permission to be himself, and you can hardly blame her for that. For as long as she's known Odo, he had always made it abundantly clear that he resents people expressing their curiosity about him. He has made it a point to say that things like regenerating and being in his natural state have been private matters. And since he has done nothing to alter that since he took up with Kira, she probably thinks she is simply respecting his privacy by not inquiring into it. Little did she know that Odo would hold that against her in a moment of crisis like this.

Sorry this is so long. It's late and I'm rambling.

crazy_diamond

Don't apologise Mary, great post

Wes&FredFan

Interesting points, Mary .

What I notice is his behavior during the Dominion Occupation, when his feelings for Kira are neutralized by linking and he tells her, basically, that her friendship no longer matters because she is a Solid. The most hurtful things Odo has ever said up to "Chimera" are said during the betrayal storyline. After she leaves his quarters, he makes no move to follow her. She is resigned, at that point, that he is gone. When he apologizes and she uses his own words against him, then storms off, he knows SHE is gone. What is interesting is that he doesn't choose to act (in both cases) until Kira has let him go completely. Without her, he feels lost. It's like the spell is lifted once he feels a finality between them. Odo saves her in "Sacrifice of Angels" though not knowing if that will truly save their friendship. He steps forward out of the darkness and they tentatively (well, until the closet conversation) reconcile. Kira saves Odo in "Chimera" but doesn't know that he'll return. When he comes back to her in "Chimera" he steps forward into her quarters, but they walk toward each other. Rather poetic ....

And that final scene ....

laurelgirl120

I think it's important to watch this scene as if you don't know what's going to happen next so you don't misconstrue what's being said and done.

The last time Odo and Kira are together he is holding her and telling her he is happy with her and is in love with her.

Then all those things happen that I highlighted in my previous message. The next time they are together is in Odo's quarters immediately after his visit to Laas in the holding cell. Odo is understandably overwrought. Sisko has sold him out and it suddenly looks to Odo like all the things Laas said are true. Laas is going to be executed and he has nowhere to turn for help except Kira. Instead of understanding and support, Kira actively defends Sisko. Odo sort of snaps emotionally and forces a discussion with Kira about who and what Odo truly is. It's a discussion they probably should have had a lot earlier, when there wasn't a crisis and they could have approached the subject in a less confrontational way. Since that never occurred, they have it now. Odo is angry and resentful and Kira, who has learned to be patient with him, finally loses her patience and reacts. Things are said with such brutal honesty it's painful. And Kira is hurt by Odo's words. What we have to remember is that when Kira walks out on Odo, 1) he doesn't know where she's going, and 2) even though he doesn't follow her, he doesn't for a minute think that their relationship is over. After all, it isn't like he has to make a choice between Kira and Laas, because as far as Odo knows, Laas is going to be executed for killing the Klingon. I don't think Odo even realizes how much he's hurt her, because in that moment he is completely wrapped up in his own feelings. I don't see his use of the word 'care' as a way of letting her down easy or anything like that. If his feelings for her have changed, I don't think he's aware of that except in terms of her not being on his side where Laas is concerned.

The next time we see them together is in Sisko's office when Kira is explaining how Laas escaped. I'm sure Odo thinks nothing in their relationship has changed. It isn't until she confesses to releasing Laas and tells him goodbye that the scales fall from his eyes and he finally realizes what's happened.

I hope that makes sense.

Wes&FredFan

IMO, he knew something was different between them, that she was probably hurting. The way she left his quarters wasn't a normal farewell for them, no "I'll be right back." I think he caught some of the finality in her "Well then maybe you were right - maybe you do belong out there." Until the turbolift, he's not entirely sure what she means by it, but he knows her well enough to know something like that would've been a deliberate statement.

It's safe to assume that the scene in Sisko's office is the first they've even been in the same room since the argument. And even then they hardly look at each other. When she casually shrugs off a general "He could be anywhere by now" he cautiously glances over for a brief moment before looking over to Sisko. The only time they share a glance at all is after he smirks a "Good luck" to Worf. He looks to Kira, who looks back at him and, for an instant, he's back to himself. The smirk vanishes and he seems humbled. When they get to the turbolift, they are both staring straight ahead as though they're just colleagues. Kira is looking at the door, speaking to him yet not looking at him. He is also staring straight ahead, but speaking to her. The dynamic has changed if they're not even looking at each other. When she turns to him, then he looks at her and truly interacts with her on a personal level. He admits that he doesn't understand what she means, and then she tells him.

That's one of the most poignant scenes, IMO, in all of Trek when she leaves and he's holding nothing but air. You never know what you've got until it's gone .... as the saying goes. The first time I saw that scene, I was tearing up ... I admit it .

I'll rewatch the entire episode again and see what I get out of it, as if I'm watching it for the first time. Good suggestion. (Note to self - remember kleenex.) I'm enjoying this discussion very much.

I played around tonight and made a new art - not sure if I'll add text. Any suggestions?



I'm still playing around with your art, Mary. If you've got any favorite pics you want used, let me know.

crazy_diamond

Lovely art Donna

OKFan

Hi everybody - it's me - Donna/Wes&FredFan .

'I'm working on more arts & videos. Hope to post them under my correct user name soon. Having some FF issues for some reason .

crazy_diamond

Glad you got fixed it Donna

ChakotaysLover

hope you get it fixed soon Donna!

Wes&FredFan

Just started a new fic - here's part 1 of my new "His Way" fic. It will be NC-17 in part 2 though . Kind of an edited 2nd draft, might add some stuff and re-do it.

Everything inside of me
Is wanting you, and needing you
I’m so in love with you
Look in my eyes
Let’s get lost tonight
In each other

Tim McGraw & Faith Hill, "Let's Make Love"


“Habitat ring, section 25 Gamma,” Kira commanded breathlessly when they got into the turbolift. The doors slid closed to the turbolift and they sped upward, yet she could still hear the applause from the crowd on the Promenade. They had made quite a public display of themselves.
And she didn’t regret it one bit.

“Computer, activate nonstop transport of this turbolift. Security code Odo Gamma One.”

“Security code verified. Nonstop transport activated.”

Kira studied Odo’s hand, still tightly held in her own. She met his gaze, and saw that his usually bright blue eyes had darkened somewhat, and had a primal look of desire in them. He looks just like he did before we first kissed .... That thought caused a small tremble to pulse through her body, remembering vividly how he had just grabbed her and kissed her.

Her last thought before he reached for her was if he would ever finally make his move. Seeing him in that tuxedo last night, feeling him against her as they danced .... She had wanted him as she had never wanted another man in her life.

Once his mouth was moving against hers, rational thought seemed to vanish. He was kissing her, possessing her all at once as though they were consummating everything right there in that one angry, passionate kiss. She wanted that anger, wanted his passion. She wanted all of him. And she wanted him now. They had waited long enough, hadn’t they?


~*~*~*~*~

He wished she wouldn’t look at him like that. Not yet. His substance was already on fire with need, and if he touched her, kissed her here he was quite certain that he wouldn’t be able to stop. He wanted their first time to be somewhere more private than a turbolift. If he could help it.

Then again, our first kiss was far from private ....

If he was supposed to feel embarrassed, he didn’t. He was feeling a lot of things, but embarrassment was not one of them.

They were still a good distance away from her quarters. He wanted to feel all of her, to kiss all of her. He stared at her, eager to kiss her again, to feel her lips against his. To feel her body against him. He wanted to curse the slowness of this turbolift.

The tremble that he felt in her body caused her hand to squeeze his. Why can’t this damn thing move faster?

Kira’s lip quirked into a smile, and he wondered if he had said something aloud, given some indication as to how close he was to just kissing her again here and now. He loved how breathless she was, and longed to make her so again. He wanted her to be many things tonight, with him watching and feeling her body respond to him ....

Her eyes were dark, her lips still swollen, her face flushed. The most beautiful woman he had ever known staring at him with desire. He knew what it was, had read about it, had longed to see it in her eyes. Now here it was. And it was better than he imagined.

Then she licked her lips.

He was lost.

Thankfully, the turbolift stopped and the doors parted, revealing that they were now only steps away from her quarters. Keeping his eyes on her, he squeezed her hand and walked as swiftly as he could without running, feeling as if he was a human male again in need of ....

He really hoped they would be inside her quarters soon.

~*~*~*~*~

With an eagerness that surprised her, she fingered her doorcode in with one hand, the sensation of his hand in hers doing odd things to her body. Her heart was racing. Her breath was coming in pants. Visions of Odo on top of her and inside her ....

Come on. Come on.

The door finally slid open and she stepped inside, pulling him in behind her without any hesitation into her darkened living area. “Computer, lights. Fifty percent.” The door closed behind them and they were finally alone for the first time all day.

The room became lit enough for her to see him standing there, studying her. Wanting her. She smiled. “Alone at last.”

He stepped even closer to her, and she was reminded of their slow dance last night when he had taken her hand and rested it against his chest. He smiled back, his blue eyes gleaming, as he released a sigh and rested his forehead against hers. It was, she realized, surreal in a way. The last time she had done that with a man had been his counterpart on Gaia. This felt right, and true. This was the real Odo. “Now what do we do?” he asked softly.

Images of what she wanted to do flooded her mind, made her release a sigh. “The only thing we can do. Just ... stay ... close.”

~*~*~*~*~

Just stay close. Oh, yes. He would do just that. He would make damn sure that he was as close to her as possible. If he didn’t, well, he was quite convinced that he might very well go insane. “Oh, I intend to,” he replied huskily, bringing his lips to hers.

TO BE CONTINUED ....

crazy_diamond

Lovely fic Donna

laurelgirl120

I'll second that! Can't wait for part two.

ChakotaysLover

AWESOME Donna!! That was so great!!

Chris

Tagged. If anybody has other suggestions, please feel free ...

Wes&FredFan

In honor of Valentine's Day