Couples - Lip & Karen #1: "I promise! I promise I don't love you." - Page 2

Chastidy · 04-04-2011, 02:46 PM

Welcome funsponge

hilarie.love · 04-04-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chastidy (View Post)

I think that he'll be there for her but i don't know if they'll be a couple. I think that it might be a long road for them to get to being a couple again. I think Lip ultimately forgave her because in retrospect, her issues with her father were right in front of him. She was constantly trying to voice them to him and he was there at the beginning of her breakdown. I think he realises that the fact that she slept with Frank was more to do with her father then him. Frank probably could have been anyone, but I think it was the fact that it was someone who her father despised that made her do what she did. I don't think Lip was even in the galaxy of her thoughts as neither was Sheila. She was just too caught up in ruining her father. I think Lip gets that and he gets her and realises that she's obviously going through something huge. I think he can forgive her for doing it but I don't know if I think he'll be able to go back to the way things were. I don't think she will be either.

Yeah I definitely agree with you on all of this. I mean I do think Lip/Karen are headed in the right direction, but like you I think they have a long way ahead of them before they become a real, solid couple. I'm so excited to see what's in store for them in S2.

And yes, it wasn't the fact that Frank was Lip's brother, but the fact that her father hated him. But god Lip. I just felt so bad for him.

& added you funsponge!

Chastidy · 04-04-2011, 04:51 PM

I know I can't wait to see what happens with them in S2.

I really want a Lip/Karen avi...

Tomorrow's skies · 04-04-2011, 04:52 PM

They were so heartbreaking in the finale

I like them, but I'm ultimately a fan of them as bffs

jaycee19 · 04-04-2011, 05:58 PM

Can I be added? I just watched the entire show in a day and I love them.

hilarie.love · 04-05-2011, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chastidy (View Post)

I really want a Lip/Karen avi...

Is there a certain scene?

Chastidy · 04-05-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Is there a certain scene?

Any really. Surprise me if you have any

Welcom jaycee, what's your favourite scene?

hilarie.love · 04-05-2011, 06:36 PM

I just can't get over how much I loved them in 1x12. Especially that one scene. For me, that's my favorite. It was one of the best in the show imo. When she started crying when Lip was saying he loved her? & Just how he said "I promise! I promise you I don't love you!" It was just so sad because you could just so tell he loved her so much, but was just begging her to believe him because he was afraid he'd lose her. His actions are just completely contradicting what he was saying to her, that's what makes it so fcking heartbreaking! SO MANY EMOTIONS GAHH.

Chastidy · 04-06-2011, 12:24 PM

Jacob, the TWOP reviewer had some amazing pearls of wisdom in his recap.

Quote:

Lip heads over to Karen's -- Jasmine: "The jailbird? He's cute!" -- and immediately apologizes for calling her a whore that time that caused her to go insane. They have some fairly graphic, disconcerting sex, where he's totally into it and she's crying the entire time, and he eventually groans out a couple "I love you"s before we cut to the post-coital wave-off, where Karen has found new ways to feel horrible about herself, and about what she's done to Lip, and with back turned breaks it off completely.

Since we've been heading here all season -- and nobody in this entire episode is actually having the conversation they think they're having -- Lip assumes it's because he broke their cardinal rule of being ****s together, and grabs her face: "I don't love you. That wasn't love you-love you, that was like middle-of-sex, you know, love you. Listen, honest! I don't love you. Okay? No, listen. I promise! I promise, I don't love you!" All the way up the stairs, with him still in his boxers begging, calling out the precise opposite of the truth: "Karen! Karen, I don't love you!"

Which I mean, for a show called Shameless I think Karen's the only thing we're really ending well on. What a horrible ****ing situation. Doesn't it seem kind of familiar, like high school? You're not allowed to love anybody, because that's too needy, but you want everybody to like you, so you have to **** them without loving them, suck off their gay brothers and have orgies and whatever, make out with other boys in front of them so they won't go away.

And you've got your dad telling you he'll love you if you only admit that you're a whore, and then like a jack-in-the-box clown, surprise! That's the one thing he can't forgive. He takes the shame in him and he puts it in you, and then blames you for it.

Lip:"I promise, I don't love you."

And you've got Daddy Frank at just the wrong time, offering you the chance to finally win one because he's someone that is not worthy of any kind of need. Nobody will ever care to win his approval, or his love, except for Debbie and Carl because they don't know better yet. Because he is the lowest. Daddy Frank, who's so insecure about his own masculinity he's just waiting for a reason to headbutt Ian, or **** Lip's girlfriend. Who would rather put his back into a speech about the strength of character it takes not to do those things than it would take to simply not do those things.

And at the heart of it, this amazing boy who's so afraid of scaring you off that he's willing to do anything for you, to you, to prove he's just as hard as you are: And that's the only person you've actually hurt. All that time saying you weren't mad and it turns out it didn't matter if you were. It wasn't about anger at all, it was about spreading the shame so wide that nobody could get away.

Shame is the opposite of grace; it is not your natural state. It is a sign that somebody ****ed up. What's that saying about how anger is like drinking poison and expecting it to kill somebody else? That's what Eddie did to you. That's how your father used you up. Doesn't that all sound just weirdly, horribly familiar?

........

Karen apologizes to Lip, and he takes her hand. They are quiet. And the night is quiet, and absolutely shameless:

Ian: "She is kind of a ****."
Lip: "Yeah, but so am I."

If we're both victims, then neither of us are victims. If we're both ****s, then there's no such thing. In a world of dirty girls and boys, there is absolutely no room for shame. They will tell you this isn't true -- you will spend your whole life being told this is a lie -- because their empire rests on its denial, on your self-loathing and fear. Because the grownups around here have everything figured out. But it's the only truth that matters:

The absence of shame is grace. Your natural state is shamelessness. If we're both dirty to the same degree, then we are both clean.

Sometimes we are baptized, and sometimes we drown. Those are the choices.

i never learn · 04-06-2011, 02:34 PM

yay, they have a thread! bbl to read through the other posts.

Chastidy · 04-06-2011, 03:00 PM

hilarie.love · 04-06-2011, 05:44 PM

lkdsjfskdlf that was such a good essay. i just adore these two. so messed up, but they have such feeling in their relationship.

but yes. when he said he "I don't love you, love, that was like middle of sex... love you" that argument just seems so futile in defending the fact that he didn't love her. like really.... MIDDLE OF SEX LOVE YOU? That's a pretty serious place to say ily Lip lmao.

and so it's like he saw the irony in that, and he could tell she wasn't buying it. then said, "Listen, honest. I don't love you," and that line was so serious cause he could tell she actually was dead serious right now. but even then when he said it, it just felt empty of meaning you know? like he was having to force it. and then when he realized she was actually leaving him it was like he went into begging mode. like she HAD to believe him even though him actually getting on that level was just proving the point even farther that he was so in love with her. and then when he tried to kiss her? *bawwwwwls* it was like he kissed her, so that if his words couldn't stop her then maybe that would?

Chastidy · 04-07-2011, 12:41 PM

That essay has so many quotes that suit them.

And yes, I totally get what you mean about the I don't love you spiel. It was the first time I think that I ever heard desperation in his voice.

hilarie.love · 04-07-2011, 02:47 PM

I love how the first time he told her he loved her, was when she was pretty much looking like this completely different person. Her issues were very external at this point, but it’s like that didn’t change in the slightest how he viewed her or anything close to that. He knows her, and loves her for exactly who she is. But even more, is that he loved her with all her issues (even in the times when they weren't as obvious). But at the same time, he also knows that she's better than that, and knows that she's so above all this crap. He encourages her to be better because he knows that’s who she is too. They help each other in so many ways.

Chastidy · 04-08-2011, 04:22 PM

Do you guys think that when the show comes back that they'll still be a couple or be just friends?

Forum Affiliates
Jax & Tara SOA, Everything Captain Swan, Iris West and Barry Allen, Bughead Family, Daily Pepperony, It's Frary's Reign, F Yeah Avalance, Malec Daily
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page


Fan Forum > General Discussion > Couples > Lip & Karen #1: "I promise! I promise I don't love you."