luvcali76

Yeah, but Bella said that a piece of her heart would FOREVER be on that bed with Jacob, that this would "forever" be a part of her. That if she had the choice, she would stay there with Jacob forever. I would hardly compare that some schoolyard crush Edward may have had.

Look. My point is simply this...I'm angry at Eclipse. I'm angry at Stephenie. I wish she had thought about Edward for a moment, instead of being so focused on who should have been a secondary character - Jacob. I'm really disappointed right now after reading that chapter again. It hit me like a pile of bricks and really cut a chunk out of the gooey feelings that Twilight and NM left me with. I just really wish she hadn't done that. It was out of nowhere, and I feel only done to drag out another book, not because it actually matters in the scheme of things. It will end EB, and I'm glad, but why put us, and Edward, through all this pain?

I'm done.

Zenkindoflove

I'm sorry if this makes you sad, but me and Michelle JUST read the end of Eclipse and needed to rant. In my opinion, Bella doesn't need to get away so easily with what she did. If this is too intense for you, this debate we're having, we can just stop it.

The point is is it wasn't a crush. She saw them being together with children. She told Jacob that that was the part that hurt the most. She basically said that they were soulmates, SOULMATES in a life that Edward didn't exist. Not to mention all the other points Michelle made above with quotes from her conversation with Jacob.


And I'm done too. The sting of the end of Eclipse was hard and I really, really needed to get this rant out. My loyalties to Edward still stand.

Zenkindoflove

Doesn't it suck! Ughhh, damn Stephenie for making Edward and Bella so damn likeable in the beginning and then writing the Eclipse nastiness.

That's the only fact that's making me hold on, in the end of things. But yeah, I still feel really bad for Edward.

little_earthquake

right. she SAW it but never CHOSE it. alice would have seen her disappear but she didnt for one second. she WANTED the future with jake to make HIM happy but she didnt for HERSELF. she NEVER wanted anything else than to be with edward.

second. yes i do believe she was soul mates with jake, like i said before i dont believe that edward and bella were meant to be since their fate was it to be predator and prey. they fell in love without having the universe to back them up. plus i do believe they SHARE a soul, rather than just have both one that connect.

third. if there werent monsters bella would have been dead already. so what jake says is pointless with the being together without any vampires around. i think SM forgot that part actually

Zenkindoflove

So you agree with me that she SAW, CHOSE, WANTED but still think that it was only "just a crush"? Look I'm not arguing that Bella doesn't love Edward. She does a lot. We're saying Stephenie went too far with this unrealistic, bull**** triangle that didn't make any sense. Stephenie can claim all these intentions but my interpretation wasn't that whatsoever. We're saying that we're angry about what she did to a couple that we love and care about and I don't see how anyone can not be upset by that.

I don't believe she was soulmates with Jacob at all. I just don't buy it that she wants him to be her brother one second and is disgusted by him kissing her and the next she's imagining them having babies.

luvcali76

We're not saying Bella doesn't love Edward, we're saying Stephenie got WAYYYYY too carried away in her Jacob fantasyland. Can we at least all agree on that? She took the end of Eclipse way farther than it needed to go to get her "choosing true love" point across and that's where our problem lies. It came out of nowhere and all the while, Edward's feelings, and he DOES have feelings, just like Bella, just like Jacob, were completely ignored and swept under the rug in Stephenie's attempt to pass off this "true love" decision thing quickly and end this phase of the book.

She just went too far. Too, too far with it, so far, I worry that she won't be able to reel it all back in. I pray that she can, but I worry.

luvcali76

Seriously, what the hell was that about? One minute - your brother - the next - your lover - ew. None of it made any sense. At all.

Yeah, and the soulmates thing is BS. She'd have been six feet under had Edward not existed. That van would have crushed her long before she met Jacob.

Zenkindoflove

Exactly. That is the biggest injustice at the end of Eclipse. I loved Bella in Twilight and New Moon but in my opinion Stephanie made her very selfish and aggravating and I think it's entirely appropriate to rant about that especially with all the given evidence we've used. I think we've made it very clear what's really gone wrong here.

Zenkindoflove

Not to mention she wouldn't have the need to be "reckless" so she wouldn't have gotten those beaten up motorcycles. There is no Jacob/Bella in a Edward-less universe.

luvcali76

I freaking LOVED Bella in Twilight and NM. She was the shiz! Even in NM, I thought she was so awesome, even when she went over Edward's absence. I loved her passion for him. I loved her tenacity, in both books. But I feel like Eclipse Bella, who had me cheering in the middle with her werewolf boxing, , just did a complete 180, Cybill personality change, by the end. It was awful.

Zenkindoflove

Ugh, exactly. Bella was so OOC and that's what's so ****ed up about all of this. I don't choose to not like Bella in Eclipse. I'm just responding to what happened and it totally upset me.

Werewolf boxing. That was SO ****ing badass!

luvcali76

"No. We're doing this your way. Because my way doesn't work. I call you stubborn but look at what I've done. I've clung with such idiotic obstinacy to my idea of what's best for you, though it's only hurt you. Hurt you so deeply, time and time again. I don't trust myself anymore. You can have happiness your way. My way is always wrong. So." - Edward at the end of Eclipse

I cannot believe that this Edward is ok. He is hurting. He is doubting himself. He doesn't trust himself. He thinks everything he does is wrong, almost like everything that happened was his own fault. He sounds so down on himself, like everything he knows, or has ever learned, every part of what makes him HIM, is wrong, and can never make her happy. And Bella corrects none of this. She lets him keep on believing this. This is not a happy man. Remember how happy he was in Twilight? When he thought that he was good at being with her? It made him feel good, and worthy of her. Now, he feels like he can't make her happy, everything that is HIM, cannot make her happy. How is that alright? I just can't ignore THIS, simply because Bella chose him. There are still other issues to deal with. Edward is one half of the relationship, too. This is not just about Bella. She may have gotten her issues resolved, but what about him now? He's broken.

little_earthquake

i said she SAW, yes but i also said she NEVER CHOSE it. she WANTED it for jake but NOT for herself. thats a difference.

oh we agree on the point that it was dragged way to far. not far enough to get me rant all day but it defenitely made me two years older. my patience was almost gone. i was relieved when the book was over. and i really feared that i would hate the book at the end. but to my surprise i didnt. i could still understand bella.


but please then dont bash bella all the time. she is just a tool, a character in the whole mess. its not her fault SM made her have feelings for the werewolf. WE know that her love is only for edward. WE know the real bella. WE have read TWILIGHT!!! which is the real book after all. NM, ECL and BD is just an attempt to continue the adventure. you dont have to take those books as serious as twilight.

and i do believe that love has no limits. true love at least. so it doesnt bother me that a part of bellas heart might have a tiny spot for jake. so what? charlie is as well in her heart, and her mom and her other friends. same goes for edward. it doesnt matter in the end. her love for edward will just grow and grow over time. it doesnt have its limits. and since he was ALWAYS her first choice it matters less that there had been a jake once in her life.

just because i loved my ex boyfriend for 100% once doesnt mean i cant love my next boyfriend for 100% as well, or even more. it doesnt mean i cant give my next love my full heart. love and love are not the same. at least for me.
she never felt the same love towards jake that she did towards edward. it was very different and not even comparable when it comes to intense part. it was something completely different. it was her best friend she happened to feel more than friendship for, yet not comparable to the strong and true love she felt for edward.

Zenkindoflove

Exactly! This is an Edward doubting himself, questioning everything, seeing that his happiness is not equated to Bella's. That SUCKS, man! I'm really thinking that this is why their reunion at the end of Eclipse left me feeling so hollow. I hate that Edward feels this way and I hate that there are no attempts by Bella to make him feel better. I can't excuse this. I just can't. Edward gives and gives and gives and I really think that if this was the Twilight/NM Bella, she would have told him exactly why he was wrong for saying that because he does make her happy. Eclipse didn't leave you feeling like that.

luvcali76

I don't like being accused of bashing when we are simply discussing an integral part of the story. Bella is a tool for the writer, yes, but Bella is also one half of this ship and I think offering my opinion on behavior that significantly affects this ship is perfectly within reason. This is a shipper thread. We are discussing the ship in a respectful manner. Now if we were calling her names or saying we hate her, that would be different. But I would think discussion would be welcomed and encouraged. Unfortunately, sometimes discussion cannot always be about big beds and meadows, though I wish it could. That would be lovely.