destroyer of worlds

Scully_fan

Tftnt!

silverduck2day

YAY! A new thread, thanks Sarah! Feel free to change the OP as much as you want (and get rid of my rubbish graphics!). Oh and perhaps add a link to thread 2?

Hmmm, I'm still blissfully hoping they can get rid of Carlisle and Lavinia in the next two episodes...

lisztomania

weee new thread!

kindness is free

TFTNT Sarah

I am still hoping that they can get rid of Carlisle and Lavinia by the end of S2 Making the way for MM to be together

In honour of the new title


"I suddenly felt terribly cold"

Credit

LuvLuke

Oooh, that's right--I had forgotten Mary felt it went Matthew got hurt! They are so obviously soul mates that I will never forgive Julian Fellowes if he leaves their love unresolved. I think Matthew is in denial of his love for Mary, but the little things he does proves his love and attachment for her--I loved how twice he put her little stuffed toy in his pocket whilst at war instead of Lavinia's picture! I am praying Lavinia isn't in the Christmas episode--what a downer that would be for me!

albina2

luvluke, L in the christmas special would be a MAJOR downer for me too! i hope they get rid of her permanently and soon. and i want matthew to be relieved when she goes and not ever see her again nor want to see her again! and i want her to know he doesn't love her. that's the reason. not because of any injuries he may or may not have, by then.

i just replied on the old thread to some points made there. i think i will paste it below, as we probably won't be looking there, now that we have a new one.

after the 1st quote, all other quotes are in quotation marks and not in quote boxes. my comments r under each quote.

----------

probably, there r matthew-haters out there. i'm not one of them. i do think he wallows a bit too much in self-pity. but i'm anti-matthew (not quite the same as hate) when i see mary suffer. i can't bear to see him look so joyful w/ L in the promo pix for e7, when mary is about to crack.

i also think she is deeper than he. he gets over people more rapidly, is able to move on more quickly because things don't go so deeply w/ him as w/ her.

"It's Mary's decision to nurse him/wheel him around and as we heard this episode,"

he could have refused to accept it, as he did earlier w/ L. but he needed someone as his ma wasn't around and he'd sent L away.

"if he thought for a moment it would scupper her chance of future happiness, he would not let her any where near him. I mean, what more can the guy do?"

he could find out her true state of mind, what's really in her heart. he confides his sorrows, feelings of sadness, guilt (re. wm, impotent cripple smelling of sick...) to her, but doesn't delve deeply into her state of being. if he had, over the long time of his recovery during which they have been together almost all the time, she'd be able to talk to him of her problems. as it is, all she has is anna. she has not one person in the family.

"Personally though, I still think he's living in denial - that everything that has happened has meant he just won't let himself think about it and puts it down to friendship. To be fair too, we've seen a lot of Mary in situations where Matthew hasn't, so we (and her family!) see a lot more than he has."

i sure hope u r right. we'll soon see, i s'pose.

"I do think that Violet's words to him next episode will wake him up to it all, and I'm pretty certain it'll make him realise too that he loves Mary. On the longer preview, I do think we see the full part of that scene, so I think his look of annoyance etc IS how he looks when Violet first tells him."

i hope it does wake him up. but DOES he really love mary other than as a concerned well-wisher? in e5, he seemed pretty upset at the prospect of not being "properly" married to L!

"But that too can be due to many things, like him being told something he simply does not want to know..."

but WHY does he not want to know? shouldn't he want to know the truth, whatever it be, so that he may know and, knowing, help? how can u be there for anyone, if u refuse to know her true state?

"I think we're just going to have to wait and watch the episode to know really, what Matthew's proper reaction will be. I just reallllly hope it's near the beginning of the episode..."

yes.

"Oh and in the longer preview, Mary makes a comment about people being stuck with choices they make and they focus in on Matthew and Lavinia, so I wonder if Matthew, at that point, has already realised he loves Mary but is staying with Lavinia out of duty..."

well, if he made at least that crystal clear to us, say thru' his response to the dowager countess or some other means, i'd feel better. as it is, i see mary suffer from years of loving him and i don't even know he loves her. i do think he has an obligation to her for all the care, and has always had an obligation to her family.

i hope he says something more to the dowager than just that he has a duty to marry L. i want to know whom he loves.

"I know there's the Spainish flu coming up, but in terms of story telling, I think it'd be pretty poor to have Matthew marry Lavinia and then she just dies..."

i'd be happy to have her gone any which way, at this pt. but u r perfectly right about it not being terribly satisfying as it would be to have him choose mary over her.

someone on this thread hoped they would not be able to stand each other when they r together all the time as they weren't from the time they met during the war and had a quickie engagement, followed by brief visits. i hope that's true.

and someone else hoped L would have her own scandal. i rather hope she does! and i hope he sends her packing and this time for gd. i don't want her back, ever again. out, out!

at another site, someone said carson may find out somethign about L. but i don't know how detrimental that could be. probably nothing that would result in an edward betram-mary crawford ending for which u, elsewhere, hoped. but then again, who knows? may be gd old carson will deliver.

again, i really don't want there to be an affair b/w Lord G and jane, the housemaid, or Lord G and anybody, in e7 or ever!

kindness is free

It is the little things they do that show how they really feel. Like you said he put Mary's stuffed toy in his pocket twice at war instead of Lavinia's picture.

When Matthew came back injured Mary took it upon herself to nurse him and make sure he was looked after.

AragornsQueen

tftnt!!!

silverduck2day

Hmmm, I don't think at this stage we can really judge Matthew on his feelings, as we don't know them for certain. He's very much not wearing his heart on his sleeve any more.

I do think though, deep down, he does still love Mary - I think he loved her too much last series to ever really get over her. Maybe if he'd never met her again, he'd be ok, but she's too much in his life. So I think when Violet tells him about Mary, he will finally realise he still loves her.

But I can't even be anti-Matthew. He's been in a war for 4 years! Mary broke his heart right in two, he's just not able to cope with any feelings she may have for him. He can't see it, question it or try to work her out - it would mean he'd have to admit the truth to himself about his own feelings and I just don't think he can deal with any of that. I don't see how that makes Matthew responsible for Mary's sufferings.

And to be perfectly honest, I can't help but think, much as I love Mary, she brought it on her self rather. She could have said yes to him last series...

I also disagree that he has an obligation to her, outside friendship of course. He can't help it if she loves him and he doesn't love her (I can't believe that to be the truth though, but in case it was).

Also, Matthew doesn't ask Mary for help - the only person he asks is Sybil to take him to his room. She chooses to help and Matthew lets her - a totally different context IMO. Matthew also has no duty to the family either, other than being a good future Earl. It's not his fault the law insists he inherits, so why should he have to marry one of the daughters?

Of course, I'm pretty certain that when Violet tells Matthew about Mary, he's going to realise he still loves her, anyway.

kindness is free

I'm not anti-Matthew either he has been through so much spending 4 years at war and having his heartbroken. It's no wonder he is guarded about his feelings.

The only person he has asked for help is Sybil But Mary has been there for him helping him and he has let her it just seems so natural when Mary helps him she doesn't think of herself, she just wants to make sure Matthew is alright.

LaraJo

hello everyone,

New here and very excited..just love Mary&Matthew to bits!!

First off, i'm so glad this forum/thread exists...been to the Digital Spy one before and felt somewhat lost, ppl gettin rather harsh about M/M there, dunno why...

Anyhow, I've just read a few of your posts and I wholeheartedly agree..

With Matthew there is a lot of subconscious stuff there. Like the war has made him suppress so much of his real emotions, all the things he couldn't deal with on top of the carnage of war. think that is still the case as with his injuries now...but of course, little scenes like the doggie-thingy or coming to Downton all the time still break through..
Lavinia - Even though my initial reaction was 'Go away!' (mimicking Mary perhaps) I am also glad she's back on the scene, because Matthew really really needs to be the one making a conscious choice here Otherwise, you'd always wonder if she wasn't 'the one that got away'. If he does love Lavinia more than Mary (JF would be dead to me, mind you) then he should make it clear, so Mary could move on and perhaps find someone else, not Carlisle though. Side note: Where the heck is Evelyn Napier? I thought he was invited...If he loves Mary more than Lavinia (which I think/hope/wish) it will show itself eventually
Also, I agree that Lavinia is way too perfect, there must be something more to her relationship with Carlisle or the scandal she told Mary about. Idk, I just got a feeling that she will reveal herself somehow. In the press pack, Dan said that Matthew and Lavinia really didn't know each other very well, that seems to be a good point. Matthew had only ever seen Lavinia's sweet, devoted side, whereas he has seen Mary's not-so-lovely side a good few times (and still wanted to marry her).
I know there won't be an easy neatly tied-up happy ending..at least not soon. Perhaps at Christmas (Oh, please JF, please, please, it's my only wish this year!!) but it is just soooo heartbreaking to see Mary jilted by someone she loves so much. Of course, the strength of DA is in its subtlety, but at this point, I just want to see Matthew cut open his chest and carve Mary's name onto it (Mary's own idea so)...or to even just show some more of his true feelings. Really really hope next episode will be a turning point!!
Go Violet, you darling! <3

kindness is free

Hey LaraJo its great to have another fan here

It is subconscious stuff on Matthew's part and Mary's they don't realise what they do it just seems so natural. Yes go Violet she is so a MM shipper

silverduck2day

Welcome LaraJo

I've not checked out the digital spy forum, but if it's all anti M/M I don't think I will! What sort of things have they been complaining about? I'm curious...

Oh and I pretty much agree with what you say!

Oh and the subconscious stuff definitely seemed to be there when he called Mary, my dear! He didn't even seem to notice!

albina2

[QUOTE=LaraJo;59224030]hello everyone,

New here and very excited..just love Mary&Matthew to bits!!

First off, i'm so glad this forum/thread exists...been to the Digital Spy one before and felt somewhat lost, ppl gettin rather harsh about M/M there, dunno why...

[/q]

larajo, welcome! excited to have u.

"With Matthew there is a lot of subconscious stuff there. Like the war has made him suppress so much of his real emotions, all the things he couldn't deal with on top of the carnage of war. think that is still the case as with his injuries now...but of course, little scenes like the doggie-thingy or coming to Downton all the time still break through.."

and yet he's very open w/ mary about his feelings about wm and such and also about his condition, and brings up on his own and speaks freely about him turning her down and such!

"Lavinia - Even though my initial reaction was 'Go away!' (mimicking Mary perhaps) I am also glad she's back on the scene, because Matthew really really needs to be the one making a conscious choice here Otherwise, you'd always wonder if she wasn't 'the one that got away'. If he does love Lavinia more than Mary (JF would be dead to me, mind you) then he should make it clear, so Mary could move on and perhaps find someone else, not Carlisle though. Side note: Where the heck is Evelyn Napier? I thought he was invited...If he loves Mary more than Lavinia (which I think/hope/wish) it will show itself eventually "

here, i am largely in agreement. if he does love L more than Mary then he should make it clear and not imply that he's going to stick w/ L out of duty. if mary's the one he truly loves then we need to know that just as clearly. if the former be the case, then i would think he doesn't deserve mary and would wish that mary get over him as quickly as possible--it won't be easy because they r thrown together so much and will continue to be thrown together even if she marries and leaves DA--and i would wish that she find someone more like the hon. evelyn napier--not like carlisle, who's going to turn really nasty if/when the family backs her desire to wriggle out of their engagement.

"Also, I agree that Lavinia is way too perfect, there must be something more to her relationship with Carlisle or the scandal she told Mary about. Idk, I just got a feeling that she will reveal herself somehow."

ahhh! that, in my mind, would be true perfection in L. anything that would give him a gd reason to get her to march. and i hope we r going to be seeing that. elsewhere, someone said carson might find something on her. i can't imagine what he could uncover that would be sufficiently damning. perhaps he will overhear a telling conversation b/w sir richard and L? what else could it be? we'll have to wait and see.

"In the press pack, Dan said that Matthew and Lavinia really didn't know each other very well, that seems to be a good point. Matthew had only ever seen Lavinia's sweet, devoted side, whereas he has seen Mary's not-so-lovely side a good few times (and still wanted to marry her)."

hey, i'd accept such a development.

"I know there won't be an easy neatly tied-up happy ending..at least not soon. Perhaps at Christmas (Oh, please JF, please, please, it's my only wish this year!!) but it is just soooo heartbreaking to see Mary jilted by someone she loves so much. Of course, the strength of DA is in its subtlety, but at this point, I just want to see Matthew cut open his chest and carve Mary's name onto it (Mary's own idea so)...or to even just show some more of his true feelings. Really really hope next episode will be a turning point!!"

my sentiments exactly!

"Go Violet, you darling! <3"

a woman after my own heart!


silver, i'll reply to u later, as yours is going to require a longer response and i've gotta run.

-albina