Make Them Laugh

Agree with Alex.... give us some epps with young Bruce Wayne seasons 9-10

I felt the love with Clark/ Lana later in the seasons...almost cried in her very last full episode.

eternalfate

Make Them Laugh

yea...lust isn't great to start with when trying to date a girl....
I hated the kryptonite necklace on Lana

well that stupid storyline with Lana/ Lex messed up a lot of things.... but I loved the reprocussion storyline with Lana after Lana/ Lex were done.

eternalfate

Make Them Laugh

thanks for that...yea...we got too general in there...lol

PhoenixRising

Earlier than that, Dave. Gough and Millar said they wanted young Bruce Wayne in Smallville as early as season 2. There was a good reason for that. As I stated, Smallville only existed because The WB was originally planning on doing TV show similar to Gotham about a teenage Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, but after a pilot episode was scripted the show was scrapped due to Darren Aronofsky's planned Batman: Year One movie, which is why The WB chose to do Smallville instead. But after Aronofsky's Batman: Year One got cancelled, The WB should've just gone through with their original plan and done a WB version of Gotham that ran in tandem with Gotham, and it was idiotic for WB to deny them that. That's why Smallville ended up using Oliver Queen instead.

But Bruce Wayne is as important to Clark's story as much as Lois Lane, Jonathan and Martha Kent, and Lex Luthor are. And Clark is just as important to Bruce's story as Alfred Pennyworth, James Gordon, and Selina Kyle are. They're like brothers; they're Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid. The two of them built the DC Comics universe from the ground up.

Dave, Lana is the absolute definition of the proverbial "Mary Sue" character from the 1973 short story, 'A Trekkie's Tale,' which was a parody of Star Trek fanfic written by a woman who was a critic of Star Trek fanfic written mostly by other women, and how they usually read like wish-fulfillment fantasy. She went from a nice, sweet high school character in the first three seasons to a piece of bad fanfiction. Possessed by her witch ancestor Isobel and acquiring magical powers? What is this, Charmed? Her brief transformation into a vampire due to a LuthorCorp virus? Buffy, anyone? And then... well, we're not there yet. But by the time she left the show... OMG, why not just give her a freaking invisible jet while you're at it? It's absurd, Dave. It was just one contrived and ridiculous storyline after another in an attempt to keep her relevant long after her purpose in the story had come to an end. She's only the girl Clark loved in high school in the comics. She's not supposed to be anything more than that.

And yes, it did have a lot to do with Kristen being contracted to seven seasons and the network being unwilling to either have her written out of the show, or have her given a storyline that didn't involve her being Clark's main love interest and the center of attention. As far as The WB/CW brass was concerned, she was the female lead and billed second after Tom, so the writers were forced to make her the focus of Clark's storyline come hell or high water, Lois, Chloe, and the writers be damned. Narrative flow, story structure, and character development were irrelevant. Their primary audience was always the 12 to 24 year age group, and Lana was the one who appealed to that group back in the first three seasons when Clark was in high school, and they figured that's what was popular. But ironically, they only ended up killing the show by doing that because ratings were dropping in seasons 6 and 7 due to the fact that they weren't in high school anymore and audiences had grown tired of the Clark/Lana thing. The broader 18 to 34 age range was what they struggled with because of that. Al and Miles regretted having done that, but I also know that they were being pressured by the network and the studio, just as they were being told who they could and couldn't use on the show.


See, I do agree with everything you said there. But again, Gough and Millar both admitted that this was a relationship that should've been over by the fourth season. You're correct in that it was superficial, but it was also very much in keeping with the typical WB format of the time when it came to teen dramas. The problem is that they should've already had an exit strategy planned from the beginning, especially since they originally planned for the show to only go five seasons. Why Kristen or anyone else for that matter would've been contracted for seven seasons makes no sense whatsoever. My big problem was that it made Clark act in ways that are not consistent with the Clark Kent we know. Lana Lang and Clark Kent are not Chuck and Blair, and this show isn't Gossip Girl. If you know that Lana is not the woman he'll end up with, you have to have a plan in place already as to how it ends for them. And I'm sorry, but you of all people have to admit that the direction Lana eventually went in was pure nonsense. Again, why not just give Lana an invisible jet while they're at it? Have her discover that her real mother was from Themyscira, why don't you? It's utterly ridiculous.



That's actually what I've been saying all along, Tia. I told you that Clark/Chloe should've been a couple from seasons 5 through 7, especially after their season 5 ending kiss. Again, friends do not act like that. I don't know how many male friends you've had, but friends do not kiss. And yes, that's why I compare them to Mulder and Scully, because like what Mulder said to Scully in Folie au Deux, she's his "one in five billion." She's always got his back and is the one he can always trust the most.

And again, friends do not act like Clark and Chloe. I'm a man, so trust me when I say I know men better than you do, Tia. Men who are just friends with women do not act the way Clark does with Chloe. You can't kiss a female friend like that and ever expect to go back to the friend zone. You cannot tell me that Clark wasn't interested in picking up where he and Chloe left off in the season 5 finale, or that he wasn't completely dejected by her totally illogical decision to shrug it off when she's been in love with him since they were both eight years old. And don't you think it's just a little odd that the writers made Chloe be Clark's first kiss when they were kids and not Lana? Again, Clark and Chloe wouldn't have to be forever, just together long enough so that Lana is completely in his rearview mirror and there's no trace of Lana left when he gets involved with Lois. Those two relationships must not overlap.

Actually, Al and Miles were always at the mercy of the studio and the network when it came to stuff like that. Sure, they were restricted from using Lois because of Superman Returns, but again, that's why Chloe Sullivan was created, to be a Lois stand-in. It wasn't necessary to drag the Clark/Lana thing out through seasons 6 and 7, trapping Clark in a perpetual high school romance that prevented him from moving forward, just as it was unnecessary to trap Chloe in a wasted storyline whose sole purpose was to act as a wedge between Clark and Chloe until Kristen's contract was over and she left the show... upon which time said storyline had served its purpose and was no longer needed. My point is, Clark and Chloe were wasted in storylines that did not contribute anything to the story or their characters when they both could've been used much more effectively in a romantic storyline that both fulfilled everything that had been built up between the two during seasons 4 and 5, and act as a way of distancing Clark from Lana so that Lois is never seen as a consolation prize, or the woman he settled for when they do end up together.


Exactly! I've told you this time and time again, I do not like forced couples or couples that seem disingenuous. I like Clark/Chloe for many of the same reasons I like Clark/Lois, although I think that Chloe deserved to have her time with Clark, even if it were only for two seasons, because...

Tia... please tell me that you also despise the trope of the hero who falls for the unattainable girl that he falls in love with from a distance, while ignoring the girl who's been by his side and standing in front of him the whole time, but he never noticed? I mean, that was the plot of nearly every 80s teen movie I'd ever seen. I always hated that guy for being such an idiot, which is the reason why I despised what the writers did by not having Clark and Chloe get together after everything they went through. If they had gotten together for a brief time, at least it would've been an earned storyline. It certainly would've been better than what they ended up with, which was a total waste of two seasons during which time audiences began leaving the show.


Al and Miles had a lot of issues with the network and the studio, and there was even a lawsuit that got filed. By the time they left, the damage had already been done. I know you don't like me reciting the ratings for the seasons, but the fact is that the ratings declined from season 6 on, and never got back to where they were in season 5. Look, The WB/CW brass did believe that since Kristen was the female lead and a rising star, that she should be the main focus of the show for as long as she was contracted because this was The WB/CW. Their demographic was 12-24, and they believed in using familiar faces and popularity above story, plot, character, and narrative progression.

eternalfate

Alex, I understand you have your strong opinions but why can't everyone just see things differently here? I don't see the big deal. You hate Clana but not everyone does. You love Chlark and saw romance as a possibility, but not everyone does. That's okay.

I don't think it was really that important for Clark to meet Bruce in his younger years to be honest. If this was an older Clark then probably I would agree. I see this show as a younger Clark where Lex and Lois probably should've entered Clark's life later but I am so grateful that did not happen.

I just think it's impossible to enjoy the show if every single decision they make is a criticism. Smallville didn't do everything right but it's still one of the greatest shows so as a fan, I hate to see it get hated on in every single turn because of things they did wrong when they did more stuff right. Also yes you have your fanfiction but everyone won't like the alternative storylines you have as well. There will always be hatred for certain writers. Everyone's work won't be 100% loved.


Well you know what as I said on the rewatch thread, I won't respond to the ratings fall and your reasoning for it since you do not want to listen to even 1% of what I am saying so it's no point of me responding since you have it all figured out.
I'll just say that I am the only person (currently) on this board who watched these episodes live, saw everything get played out in real-time from network changes to contracts to ratings but what the hell do I know? I'll stay silent.

Well, I disagree because even if I saw some potential there I NEVER wanted Clark/Chloe to become a couple and forever happy that they did not. Clark had certain feelings for her but it was never big enough. I've had people I am attracted to who I am friends with but it was never more than that. For me, I wouldn't have wanted Clark to date Chloe and then go to Lois and I KNOW you are going to give me many stories and scenarios of how it should've gone but there is no point. This is the one thing we will never agree on. Move on from it. You wanted them and felt they should've been a thing and I feel they shouldn't have. I love their friendship. Mulder/Scully always should've been a thing.



Again I won't comment on Al and Miles since you know... I was there in live time but my opinions don't seem to matter since you have it all figured out so yep you can roll with that.

I don't think Chloe deserved her time with Clark.

Depends on the couple because sometimes I fall for the trope and something I do not like it. I am starting to think the ridiculous troupe is that the guy falls in love with the best friend who was there the whole time since I don't believe in that. lol

PhoenixRising

Okay, fine Tia. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

TomsEnough

^ That's always a good idea.

Make Them Laugh

I think Alex loves Clark/ Chloe couple/ shipp more than Peter/ Claire although to be fair...the viewers got mad at how they handed Peter/ Claire storylines

I'd love to see a Ryan/ Marissa and Clark/ Chloe go out on a night out on the town....OC/ SV crossover

TomsEnough

I would love to know more of Alex's favorite scenes with Clark & Chloe!

Make Them Laugh

you might be solo on this

PhoenixRising

Well, I was denied both ships, but Clark and Chloe at least kissed, which Peter and Claire never did.

Not a fan of Ryan and Marissa. That was a very high maintenance ship. They were exhausting.

I'll post them on the Clark/Chloe thread, Fatima.

What, you don't like their scenes, Dave?

TomsEnough

^ I would love to know more scenes Alex!

Make Them Laugh

I did and I think you covered all the scenes for Chloe/ Clark for Fatima and I.... so you are good.

sad, but true...high maintenance with RyMar...not even Clark/ Superman could save that relationship but might be able to save Marissa from dying...