figeuroa

I think SS and Co. are actually good at small moments, lines or subplots (a light and quaint scene ends with one that I find it quite poignant since the tone changes); a season-long arc - they are either distracted by the small and delicate moments they plan, or just don't know how to have a mind behind it, or a mix of the two...

Narcissist: is that Narcissus consumed so much by his self-love and loses his life forever? On the contrary, C lacks self-love - his tragedy is he bases his self-value on different persons... I find that note weird, maybe an allusion to that he looked out for himself over B in 3.17?

I don't like B is such a "pain ****", either...

ccj...

ccj

I think the narcissist thing is the self-love, or really only seeing himself and his pain. So, when Chuck gets hurt, he literally only thinks of himself and does collateral damage...so Chuck leaving with Elle, while Blair's life fell apart, Chuck lashing out at her to make himself feel better, 3x17, probably several of the instances earlier in the season where she was trying to reach him and he was focused elsewhere, on business, etc. The fact that sometimes he didn't seem to see her pain...like in the new club scenario (or in my mind 3x04, although I see people disagreeing.)

While Blair's masochism is reflected in her willingness to lose herself in Chuck--3x17, only wanting to help him earlier in the season, her lost concern in the parts of the Mommy storyline, her persistence and then total breakdown in season 2, the fact that she's the one usually chasing, expressing love, etc. .etc.

So, I think they've been playing this dynamic since the death of Chuck's dad, (possibly since 2x07? Maybe not) and maybe is the reason they did OTT family issues AGAIN for Chuck. I think it's the cause of a lot of the 'imbalance' we see.

I'd like them to remember when they set up these dynamics that they're so very proud of...that Blair and Chuck didn't use to be like this, that some is good, but constantly it gets really sick, and maybe they should knock it off if they expect ME TO SHIP IT.

Ugh, A season and a half. I'm slightly relieved that apparently I maybe wasn't supposed to find it romantic? It went on for far too long to my mind though and Chuck was always SO AWARE of Blair before. He hurt her, yes, but deliberately and lashing out because he was hurt (usually because she hurt him, inadvertently or deliberately). This hurting through narcissistic neglect (although he was in pain thruogh family issues) was WAY too similar to some stuff in Nate/Blair (and then amped way up) for my comfort.

figeuroa

I think C is a self-destructive and self-hatred person, but he has a tendency to think of self and self-interest, in that sense, his "narcissism" is closer to the concept of egoism... Like you noticed he caused havoc while his life wasn't wholly satisfactory or he got hurt, but his plan always blew in his face so he became the victim of his own making, but the focus directed toward his self-interest often. (I didn't like 3.04 mostly because I thought the writers played too much fan-girlish writing in it, the most notorious one - "the Great Chuck Bass"...cringewrothy.. )

2.07 was a borrowed plot from Cruel Intention but they changed the direction of CB's story to accommodate CV's build-up...That episode felt very disconnected to the story told prior to it...I surely think CB's lopsided dynamic began after 2.12 (Bart's death) - heralding the dynamic changed and anti what called "establishment"...

The interesting points: B's vow was challenged and failed to achieve it; C's "I am not Chuck Bass without you" led the birth of a ~new man... I think it's good and positive the writers weren't praising B for not setting her boundaries (i.e: everything) or encouraging C to base his self-identity on B...It's not about romantism, it's about personal flaw...

ccj

Yeah, I singled out 2x07 because A)I hated it. and B) because that was when Blair started 'chasing' him which struck me odd because Tuscany hadn't even really been dealt with. But 2x12 is far closer.

I know, everyone is mainly viewing Chuck's failling as basing his identity around Blair and Bart...but I think an equal flaw is Chuck's self-centeredness and willingness to hurt Blair. I thought it's interesting how we never hear apologies from him, and that every time Blair was really supposed to be the one taking a risk. Maybe I'm stretching...but I found the "I love you too' pretty watered down in the season 2 finale after Blair's many speeches, desperation etc. I wonder now if they wanted Chuck to have all the power in the lreationship. I still don't like it, because that's not at all how they were in season 1...but in the second part of season 2 and all through their relationship, it seemed to me Chuck held all the cards. The only time Blair regains the upper hand is when she's had 'enough'. That's not to say Chuck wasn't supportive sometimes or he didn't care...but he usually decided when they had sex, what he'd let her in on...and his helping her was often achieved by manipulating her. She even pointed out that he'd said that they shouldn't manipulate eachother in the elevator episode and he laughed it off. Maybe I"m just looking for explanations on why their relationship felt really really off to me.

Also in season 2, there were SO many scenes of him saying hurtful things to Blair, and the hookers and blow was really over the top after everything else. I know it felt like 'not Chuck' to me, but maybe they were setting this up. I understand, yes, he was grieving, but I was kind of wondering if the writers were sadists because there were SO many repeated scenes. I know it's been fanwanked as 'keeping her away from me to not hurt her' but...that always felt really hollow to me. Especially because we've learned he didn't actually get that sense of self worth that would let him establish his own identity to explain him actually coming to her at the end. And he'd push her away, and then drag her back in. That actually started before Bart's death with the whole 'chase me...no we can't be in a relationship thing'. I think the hurtful things (even though he was the one who had wronged her) is shown to be how their relationship works, because they used the Yale crack when she came to see him to help him with Lily. I understand that's Chuck reacting to being pushed...but it is a repeated pattern.

I'm hoping that if they do CB again, the second stage after Chuck deciding to love himself for himself and getting a new girlfriend and sense of self worth (and if they have Blair be destroyed over that for too long, I"m done with them irregardless), is to deal with that whole narcissist/masochist thing, and have him strive/fight for her and show that he SEES her pain and understands what went wrong before.

If they pitch it as 'oh, he's got self worth now' and the narcissism isn't dealt with seperately, and the history with Blair isn't dealt with WITH BLAIR, I'd say they've missed the most interesting part of the story.

effies

I didn't like "I love you, too" because I wanted to hear "I love you" and it was rushed!

kaleidoscope eyes

Boy was that ILY rushed! It could've been better but I still love it.

figeuroa

Nice point. If C wasn't so self-involved and lost sight of B, or willing to sacrifice B for his career the Indecent Proposal wouldn't have had happened...

I think in 3.06 and 3.17 both of them were equal to the willingness putting their desire before the other's, or say, putting the other in a position as a sort of being likely to rise to the "bait"... I find it interesting that I've seen C stans accuse B of putting C in an embarrassing position for a small deal, and contrastingly, most viewers were dissatisfied or equally angry at C putting B through such a big deal...

ccj

Call me a B stan, but 3x06 and 3x17 were so hugely different in scale, consequence, and degree of manipulation (Chuck plotted with Jack, rigged the dress etc., manipulated B with her fears for him and on and on, plus the degree of what was being negotiated was so much higher) that I really reject any attempt on the show's to equate the two. They showed Chuck being aware that Jack tried to rape Lily, and then he plotted with Jack AGAINST Blair to get her to sleep with him, and then he pretty clearly planned to blame her for it given the way he was waiting for her when she got home. Just...so far away from 'waiting 10 seconds to interrupt a kiss' (although that was gross too) that I find it offensive that this show plays with that line.

Maybe it also bothers me because Blair has often put her social ambitions on hold for Chuck--Colony Club, the picture in 2x03, leaving the party where she was going to meet the La Table Elitaire--while we saw Chuck continually shutting Blair out of his business dealings, lecturing her, never giving anything up for her that I can remember (please correct me if I'm wrong). So that they use this to show them as 'equivalently selfish' really bothers me because Blair is so often selfless (although not always) with Chuck. It seems like she's getting punished for a behaviour pattern that she breaks often, while others get given a free card. I'll never buy that this was equal selfishness shown from the two of them.

If the show would admit that, I wouldn't have problems because both have flaws both similar and distinct...but 3x18 trying to picture them as equally twisted and at fault for the breakup? I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

gems81

so much word.

I am a CB shipper so my only hope is that next season B will have her own storyline and C will be there for her as a friend, so they can find their way back to each other.

bright_eyes

I want more NB scenes at Columbia. At least she has Serena and Nate still.

kaleidoscope eyes

That's all I really want.

bright_eyes

I think the writers got so caught up in breaking them up s3 that it was just all so EHHHHHHH

kaleidoscope eyes

Yeah, they really put all their energy in that towards the end of the season, in the beginning CB were pretty much in the backburner.

figeuroa

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying 3.06 and 3.17's cases are comparable in any measure with regards to the destruction, scale and results, I said it equalled in that they put their desire above the other's...C had alot of manipulation work done in 3.17 and I could not repress a shiver whenever I think woman's body was a point in this storyline and Jack had a violent and rapey history with Lily so he was remotely a safe choice...

She was far from selfish, actually the writers gave her a role to play a soft, gracious and *heroic heroine. But instead of strengthening her identity and her confidence within this relationship she lost them, both of them. I feel she is becoming a vehicle to build C's sole brood and twisted image and for the fangirls' worshipful desire for him...


ETA:

I've seen some replies in 3.22 that B shouldn't be anger at him or she NEVER idealized their relationship, I only feel surreal... I actually am thinking B gave C a chance to admit he was hiding someone from her, she expecting some sort of explanation to her, or not lie to her. But C denied it... I think at that moment she sensed the thing went wrong and yet fooled herself into thinking she could handle it... I guess it's likely to be viewed as a disillusion moment that set up her final anger. D punched C broke the spell and dragged her back into the reality and into her own right sense... I think she had the idea he wouldn't lie to her nor fool her, but the confrontation moment made her shatter in a more negative way because she gave him a chance to admit his wrongdoing to her and he missed it...

retro physical

Love the title!

I miss my bb Blair!

I'm planning on not watching GG when it starts back up. I'll just be youtubing the BS scenes.