Robert Carlyle - Once Upon A Time Episode Discussion 7x18 "The Guardian" - Page 2

**crazy_diamond** · 04-23-2018, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belleislove (View Post)

Yes, that's what I got out of it too. Although I am perfectly fine with him having a shrine to Belle. I actually saw people complaining about this to Adam on Twitter saying was ridiculous and so on. Really? People have never seen gravestones with all kinds of flowers and assorted things on them?

But yes, I think this was a general place people can go to talk to the dead.

The episode was beautiful and he was just fabulous. No complaints. I also got why he stole the magic from Regina. Yes, she has a right to be mad. This is her son's life she's worried about.

However, in the past whenever Rumple was worried about Belle and Belle was kind of in danger people weren't overly concerned for him. In fact I remember a scene with Henry where Rumple was worried about Belle and what the Black Fairy had done to her and him being told pretty much that Belle would have to wait, that what Henry wanted was more important. And I got where Henry was coming from but I also got where Rumple is coming from. So I wasn't really too upset about that. He was wrong certainly yes, I get Regina being angry.

But to Rumple, the thought of being controlled again by the dagger and someone having that power over the Dark One again took precedence so he made a decision that could cost his grandson. I'm not excusing it. He was wrong. But I do understand his thinking.

I think he was clearly shaken that he believed she was right, that he hadn't changed at all and that he had hurt Henry. And I think he'll make it up to him. And I think he cares about Rogers and Tilly and Regina as well. And he'll make a sacrifice. For some viewers it will never be enough and for some it will be too much, imo.

In the past, others of the heroes have done things in the name of love that may not have been the best choices. Emma turning Hook into a Dark One, all of them leaving SB and taking Henry to the underworld and possibly leaving their children orphans. They did these things to save someone they cared about. So honestly I'm not condemning Rumple for doing the same. Sometimes we don't make good choices. And Rumple is always called out for his bad choices but I think that works both ways.

If that is "woobifying" Rumple

so be it. I'm guilty.

But anyway he was just spot on in his performance as usual. The voice inflections, the tears. What a great episode.

^ ITA

Grace52373 · 04-23-2018, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belleislove (View Post)

Yes, that's what I got out of it too. Although I am perfectly fine with him having a shrine to Belle. I actually saw people complaining about this to Adam on Twitter saying was ridiculous and so on. Really? People have never seen gravestones with all kinds of flowers and assorted things on them?

But yes, I think this was a general place people can go to talk to the dead.

The episode was beautiful and he was just fabulous. No complaints. I also got why he stole the magic from Regina. Yes, she has a right to be mad. This is her son's life she's worried about.

However, in the past whenever Rumple was worried about Belle and Belle was kind of in danger people weren't overly concerned for him. In fact I remember a scene with Henry where Rumple was worried about Belle and what the Black Fairy had done to her and him being told pretty much that Belle would have to wait, that what Henry wanted was more important. And I got where Henry was coming from but I also got where Rumple is coming from. So I wasn't really too upset about that. He was wrong certainly yes, I get Regina being angry.

But to Rumple, the thought of being controlled again by the dagger and someone having that power over the Dark One again took precedence so he made a decision that could cost his grandson. I'm not excusing it. He was wrong. But I do understand his thinking.

I think he was clearly shaken that he believed she was right, that he hadn't changed at all and that he had hurt Henry. And I think he'll make it up to him. And I think he cares about Rogers and Tilly and Regina as well. And he'll make a sacrifice. For some viewers it will never be enough and for some it will be too much, imo.

In the past, others of the heroes have done things in the name of love that may not have been the best choices. Emma turning Hook into a Dark One, all of them leaving SB and taking Henry to the underworld and possibly leaving their children orphans. They did these things to save someone they cared about. So honestly I'm not condemning Rumple for doing the same. Sometimes we don't make good choices. And Rumple is always called out for his bad choices but I think that works both ways.

If that is "woobifying" Rumple

so be it. I'm guilty.

But anyway he was just spot on in his performance as usual. The voice inflections, the tears. What a great episode.

I think we are all guilty of woobifying Rumple.

You said exactly what I was thinking after watching the Guardian, that Rumple using that magic even though it risked Henry was a reversal of Henry telling Rumple that Belle would have to wait in season 6. I understand both sides but I am resentful towards the caviler way Henry treats his grandfather and Belle. The one time he pretends to want to get to know his father and his grandfather was all a ruse to help Regina. I was shocked Regina even remembered Henry was Rumple's grandson because Henry seems to ignore that fact. Lucy hasn't even had a scene with him. I am not saying Rumple isn't at fault as well but he does love his grandson but I think he feels like Henry only tolerates him and doesn't really want to get to know him. I would love to think I am wrong but I don't think so.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on both the Chosen and The Guardian:
I have never been fond of Zelena and I’m still not fond of her and I am proud for Rumple for helping her despite the fact that she didn’t deserve it. I am glad she is gone...no offense to the actress who plays her. She is brilliant and hats off to Rebecca Mader. Now Zelena can have a new life as Kelly. Although I hope she tells her fiancé the whole truth. Rebecca actually made me feel a touch sorry for Zelena when the huntsman turned on her but that only lasted until she threw away the bottle and burned Hansel but for a second I did thanks to Rebecca's acting.
I love Margot and Tilly! Rumbelle and swanfire 2.0!
I am warming up to Henry and Jacinda more so in the present than in flashbacks probably because we haven’t seen much of their EF2 romance.
Too bad they killed off Hansel/Nick!
I love new Hook! Much improvement and his interactions with Rumple and Tilly put a smile on my face. I will take him over Prime Hook any day!
Rumple always will be my favorite but I also am liking Regina. I was surprised though that she remembered Henry was Rumple’s grandson though because no one else did, even Henry when he had his memories! LOL!
Rumple made two mistakes and I loved how he saved Alice and Alice, the best guardian for the dagger EVER, vowed to help him stay on track and remind him of his goodness. I loved how the picture of Belle in the background seemed to bless their friendship!
One thing...I agree that Regina had a right to be angry and this isn’t a slap to her or Henry but Rumple’s actions mirrored Henry’s actions in the season 6 finale. Rumple was worried about what his mother did to Belle during the curse but Henry brushed off his fears and said that Belle could wait which is something I found very thoughtless at the time even if I understood the boy’s concerns. I think this incident with Rumple stealing the magic to save Henry mirrored this perfectly and I hope both characters in the future come to realize they both could do better by each other.

I am enjoying the episodes this season. The show is much improved and I can only hope it gets better. There is more ensemble and there are more dialogue between the characters. It isn't moving from one plot to another anymore. It is like we are getting pieces of an elaborate puzzle every week and scrambling to solve it. I haven't enjoyed the show this much since season 2.

sourburst · 04-24-2018, 01:42 AM

I'm so unbelievably happy that we got so much screen time for him. I've been waiting since the start of the series for something decent and OMG i loved it.

**crazy_diamond** · 04-24-2018, 04:18 AM

It was a great eppy Jade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace52373 (View Post)

Rumple made two mistakes and I loved how he saved Alice and Alice, the best guardian for the dagger EVER, vowed to help him stay on track and remind him of his goodness.

I am enjoying the episodes this season. The show is much improved and I can only hope it gets better. There is more ensemble and there are more dialogue between the characters. It isn't moving from one plot to another anymore. It is like we are getting pieces of an elaborate puzzle every week and scrambling to solve it. I haven't enjoyed the show this much since season 2.

Such a beautiful scene that

and I must admit I am too

Belleislove · 04-24-2018, 05:46 AM

Quote:

You said exactly what I was thinking after watching the Guardian, that Rumple using that magic even though it risked Henry was a reversal of Henry telling Rumple that Belle would have to wait in season 6. I understand both sides but I am resentful towards the caviler way Henry treats his grandfather and Belle. The one time he pretends to want to get to know his father and his grandfather was all a ruse to help Regina. I was shocked Regina even remembered Henry was Rumple's grandson because Henry seems to ignore that fact. Lucy hasn't even had a scene with him. I am not saying Rumple isn't at fault as well but he does love his grandson but I think he feels like Henry only tolerates him and doesn't really want to get to know him. I would love to think I am wrong but I don't think so.

I actually saw Rumple get criticized for that at the time, that he should have dropped looking for Belle to help Henry because he's his grandson. I just saw it differently.

I was raised to believe a marriage is sacred and your spouse comes first. There's been a tendency in this fandom to kind of minimize marital relationships over blood relationships. Or maybe it's just Rumple and Belle? I don't know. But I know there are people who resent the fact that Rumple married Belle and had another child when his first child was dead and I'm truly puzzled by this and why Rumple's first and number one priority shouldn't be his wife?

Should Rumple have just cut himself off from life when Neal died? It's funny that some of the same people who wanted him to mourn Bae forever and not love another thing ever are complaining that it's wrong for him to mourn Belle forever and want to be with her.

Many times when people have been married for many years and one dies the other goes fairly quickly after that. It's that deep love that you've known for a lifetime. It is sad and beautiful at the same time.

I do understand why Henry wouldn't be that gung ho on a relationship with Rumple. I get it. And Rumple really in the past didn't reach out to Henry much either. I blame the writers for that. But the fact is for whatever reason he doesn't have a real "relationship" with Henry. It's sad but not all grandparents and grandchildren have a huge bond. It's wonderful when it happens but it's not unheard of. Maybe in the last episodes we will see some of that. And frankly, I do think Rumple will end up dying to save Henry. But there will always be people who don't think it's enough.

I will always think Rumple's redemption has been the most believable. And even though I haven't been crazy about this season, it's given us some wonderful moments and scenes. I wish they could have given us this better writing when we had the original cast all here in past seasons.

I also liked Alice for the first time. She had me in tears, lol. Very sweet. And I love wish Hook/Rogers and Alice/Tilly and with Rumple. That's the story I've enjoyed this year from what I've seen.

Grace52373 · 04-24-2018, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belleislove (View Post)

I actually saw Rumple get criticized for that at the time, that he should have dropped looking for Belle to help Henry because he's his grandson. I just saw it differently.

I was raised to believe a marriage is sacred and your spouse comes first. There's been a tendency in this fandom to kind of minimize marital relationships over blood relationships. Or maybe it's just Rumple and Belle? I don't know. But I know there are people who resent the fact that Rumple married Belle and had another child when his first child was dead and I'm truly puzzled by this and why Rumple's first and number one priority shouldn't be his wife?

Should Rumple have just cut himself off from life when Neal died? It's funny that some of the same people who wanted him to mourn Bae forever and not love another thing ever are complaining that it's wrong for him to mourn Belle forever and want to be with her.

Many times when people have been married for many years and one dies the other goes fairly quickly after that. It's that deep love that you've known for a lifetime. It is sad and beautiful at the same time.

I do understand why Henry wouldn't be that gung ho on a relationship with Rumple. I get it. And Rumple really in the past didn't reach out to Henry much either. I blame the writers for that. But the fact is for whatever reason he doesn't have a real "relationship" with Henry. It's sad but not all grandparents and grandchildren have a huge bond. It's wonderful when it happens but it's not unheard of. Maybe in the last episodes we will see some of that. And frankly, I do think Rumple will end up dying to save Henry. But there will always be people who don't think it's enough.

I will always think Rumple's redemption has been the most believable. And even though I haven't been crazy about this season, it's given us some wonderful moments and scenes. I wish they could have given us this better writing when we had the original cast all here in past seasons.

I also liked Alice for the first time. She had me in tears, lol. Very sweet. And I love wish Hook/Rogers and Alice/Tilly and with Rumple. That's the story I've enjoyed this year from what I've seen.

All relationships are important and make a person well-rounded but your family, and yes I know it is a shock to people, includes your spouse! Henry knew where his family was but Rumple had no idea where Belle was and I argued with those who denigrated him for it that Belle should be his priority. Henry was safe, aware of what was going on and knew where everyone was and that for the moment were safe. No one knew where Belle was and Fiona was showing Rumple false pictures of her saying she abandoned them. Rumple knew different and was scared about what Fiona did to his wife so of course she is a priority along with Gideon who thought his mom abandoned them because of the false memories Fiona put in his head. Also, Gideon was in danger from Fiona so I took issue with Henry brushing Belle and Gideon off like that and proud that Rumple made Belle a priority. That was not selfish of him at all!

Belleislove · 04-24-2018, 11:04 AM

There's always been a double standard in the online fandom, about numerous things.

But if anyone else puts their family first and does questionable things to protect that family they're wonderful and that's love.

Rumple does it and he's a villain.

Doesn't mean he should kill an innocent person to protect his family or anyone should. And Henry is his family too. But, it doesn't mean his priority shouldn't be his wife and son.

As far as the dagger in this episode, he has a very real fear, justifiably, of being controlled by that dagger so I understand his need to find it.

I think Facilier is much more the villain here than Rumple is though. Even though he didn't take the dagger we know he wants it. It could be a twist coming and he wants it for a good reason but I think that's a long shot.

Sorry for going off topic about this week's episode a bit. As far as The Guardian, I agree with others that he's lost or is fast losing hope about this. Luckily it's almost the end of his search.

**crazy_diamond** · 04-24-2018, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belleislove (View Post)

As far as the dagger in this episode, he has a very real fear, justifiably, of being controlled by that dagger so I understand his need to find it.

That dagger is a

and should be on him at all times, mind you Alice is his unknowingly backup..

Grace52373 · 04-24-2018, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belleislove (View Post)

There's always been a double standard in the online fandom, about numerous things.

But if anyone else puts their family first and does questionable things to protect that family they're wonderful and that's love.

Rumple does it and he's a villain.

Doesn't mean he should kill an innocent person to protect his family or anyone should. And Henry is his family too. But, it doesn't mean his priority shouldn't be his wife and son.

As far as the dagger in this episode, he has a very real fear, justifiably, of being controlled by that dagger so I understand his need to find it.

I think Facilier is much more the villain here than Rumple is though. Even though he didn't take the dagger we know he wants it. It could be a twist coming and he wants it for a good reason but I think that's a long shot.

Sorry for going off topic about this week's episode a bit. As far as The Guardian, I agree with others that he's lost or is fast losing hope about this. Luckily it's almost the end of his search.

Facilier is definitely the villain just like Gothel! He awakened Nick hoping he would get rid of the competition over the dagger so until a twist comes, I will believe he is up to no good. I agree that Rumple has a very real fear of being controlled by the dagger which I hope he can rest easy now that he knows the guardian will protect it.

**crazy_diamond** · 04-25-2018, 03:45 AM

and Facilier definitely up to no good, but I do wonder what his overall plan is

Belleislove · 04-25-2018, 05:08 AM

I feel bad for Regina fans and OQ fans who got this as their last story. I think the whole thing with him and Regina has been pointless if he's just one of these temporary villains they bring in every year.

And imagine trying to hurt the dark one by sticking pins in a doll.