Wingster

I believe he or she means the actual Dr. Wells

miltk

like i said before, it's tricky when the writers play these time travel games.

so,,,,if eobard is erased and causes the real dr.wells to still be alive, then do the writers stay consistent and keep barry's mom alive and UN-flash barry? or are they going to pick and choose without regard for consistency.

i think they have to keep the original wells dead unless they(writers) can wiggle out of this puzzle.

miltk

there have been 23 episodes in 6 months for the FIRST season. in that season, 23 episodes notwithstanding, we have basically seen everything fleshed out and resolved.

i think the iris/barry relationship justified a much longer arc, especially considering the added complication of eddie. castle and beckett simmered for basically 4 seasons.

the wells/thawne secret was also concluded rather swiftly.

barry confronted his issue with his mom's death and resolved it,,,more or less, leaving the dad in prison thing similarly concluded. again, as a comparison beckett's mom's killer still remain untouched after 6 seasons and my guess is it will end with beckett's justice, which i think would have been a fitting conclusion to flash's final season. i've read a lot of opinions about wanting eobard and eddie to still be alive which says to me that many fans would have liked to see some plots fleshed out better.

a lot has happened in this first season of the flash. it took 3 seasons for oliver queen to drive off into the sunset with felicity.

just sayin'

Hero of Time

Hey guys , we are moving this to the general discussion thread or else we would have two very similar threads and just one moving and getting post, so let's go the the GD thread, okay?

Also please avoid double posting (posting yourself within short amounts of time), if you wanna add something to your post, you can always use the edit button to add something in. When you have posted something and no one has posted after you for a couple days, it's okay to bump the thread, though. Thank you .

Hero of Time

This also belongs to the general discussion thread, so I'm moving it there as well, ok? It helps keeping the board organized. Thank you for understanding .

Elektra

See below a possible explanation for why Eobard ceasing to exist didn't wipe everything out, which may play into Season 2.

I originally posted this in the WestAllen thread but it's probably more appropriate to post it in here (warning: tl;dr begins below… ).

For the purposes of this post, I'll refer to the "What should have happened" timeline as the 2020 timeline (when Wells was SUPPOSED to start up the particle accelerator), and the "What did happen" timeline as the 2015 timeline (when Eobard speed up the particle accelerator's creation).


Theory:

I'm going to start off by assuming that in the 2020 timeline, Iris and Barry were in a romantic relationship before Barry became The Flash.

Let's say Barry suddenly got brave and told Iris his feelings. Since she felt the same way -- and there was no Eddie (more on that later) it was all good.

I'm also going to assume that Barry and Iris were married a year or two after he became The Flash, hence the Iris West-Allen byline we saw in the 2024 newspaper, four years after Barry would have become The Flash. Barry/Iris would have been married for a couple of years by then. Maybe they would have had kids by then, or Iris was expecting, who knows?

Moving on: As we saw in the Season finale, Future!Flash stopped Barry from saving his mom. Why?

I believe he did this because it was always Nora's destiny to die that night (Eobard even said as such in episode 15, I think), just as it was always Barry's destiny to live.

What I mean by that is, that while Eobard may have stabbed Nora in the 2015timeline, perhaps she was stabbed by someone else in the 2020 timeline (home invasion? Catching a thief in the act, etc). Barry still escaped (ie: Henry yelling "Run, Barry, Run") while Nora was being attacked.

Eobard stabbed Nora in the 2015 timeline because using his hand-through-the-chest skills to kill her would have led to far too many questions, and wouldn't have had the intended results he wanted -- that being Barry losing both parents, albeit in two different ways.

If the 2020 timeline stayed intact, Barry still would not have gotten a good enough look at the attacker to convince the jury of his dad's innocence (since he still would have escaped/run away before his mom was actually killed). Henry's fingerprints would have still been on the knife that killed Nora, and he still would have been covered in Nora's blood while he was trying to save her, thus all the evidence a judge/jury needed to lock him up.

Basically, the only thing Eobard really changed in the 2015 timeline was S.T.A.R. Labs happening 5 years earlier.

In the 2020 timeline, Barry was still going to be a CSI because his mom was still going to be stabbed to death when he was 11, and his pursuit of proving his dad innocent would have still followed the same course.

The particle accelerator explosion was always going to happen, Barry would always be in his lab when it did, and he was still going to become the Flash... but 5 years later than we saw in the TV timeline.

By that logic, Cisco, Caitlin and Ronnie would have STILL been working for Dr. Wells, Ronnie's accident and the creation of the Metahumans would have also still happened -- but again, 5 years later.

Since Barry's mom was dead and his dad in jail, the 2020 Iris/Barry/Joe situation would have still been the same.


Barry/Iris/Eddie:

The only deviation from the 2020 timeline was Eddie's relationship with Iris in the 2015 timeline, which never should have happened.

The show made a point of having Iris say that she only agreed to go on a date with Eddie because Barry was in a coma in the 2015 timeline ("Detective pretty boy asked me out. I said yes. I do stupid things like that when you're not around"), which leads me to believe that in the "original" timeline, she would have said "no" to Eddie asking her out (which would have still happened at the same time) because she didn't see the need to be in a romantic relationship since "My life was already full with Barry, my dad and work" (as per episode 3, I believe).

Because of this, Eobard would have still been born, since Eddie would have eventually married someone who was NOT Iris, and had kids/grandkids/great grandkids, etc.



The Thawne/Flash feud:

Why did the Thawne/Flash feud start?

It's possible that in the 2020 timeline, Eddie may have been PO'd that The Flash was getting all the glory for being a hero, usurping his hero-cop status - which would fit in with what we saw in first half of the TV Pilot, where Eddie was all about wanting to be the top guy. The show even said that Eddie kept a running count of all his arrests, and often bragged about how awesome he was.

Deviation: Eddie's relationship with Iris in the 2015 timeline. This helped temper Eddie's egocentric attitude, and ended up making him a better person ("I wanted to be your hero" - RIP 2015!Eddie L).

In the 2020 timeline, however, Eddie would not have been in a relationship with Iris (because, again, Barry would not have been in a coma at the time, and Iris would not have agreed to go out with Eddie, as mentioned above).

Eddie would have still created the Flash taskforce, albeit 5 years later (when the Flash would have originally shown up in the 2020 timeline), and would NOT have disbanded it (because that whole Reverse Flash thing with Eobard would not have happened, and The Flash would have had no need to save Eddie's life, thus Eddie would still be free to see him as a menace).

The Flash/Eddie feud in the 2020 timeline would have escalated to the point where Eddie's hatred for The Flash rubbed of on his future children, which then rubbed off on their children, so on and so forth, until the stories grew to such huge proportions that future Thawnes saw The Flash as some horrible person that destroyed their lives, rather than looking to themselves as to why things weren't as perfect as they wanted them to be.

Why would this hatred still burn 136 years later? Because there probably still IS a Flash (and a Justice League, and what not), but just as another generation of the Allen family tree (Barry's descendants).

And thus, this brings us back to Eobard hating The Flash (and finding out the first Flash was Barry, thus wanting to nip that whole Heroic Speedster thing in the butt), leading to everything being set into motion as it was.

tl;dr: Everything that happened to Barry in the 2015 timeline would have still happened in the 2020 timeline (Dead Nora, jailed Henry, CSI Barry). The Particle accelerator would have still happened, a Thawne would have still hated him… but it all would have happened 5 years later.

Phew… I hope that all made sense!

PS - that black hole? History attempting to correct itself since things happened too fast. Barry, however, is now part of the Speedforce, so he'll still retain his powers when he comes back out, since the Speedforce doesn't like to give up it's Speedsters. And also, black hole! Maybe the "time shift" won't even affect him while he's in there.

miltk

,,,or in other words, history will find a way to correct itself
either wells or stein said that. the writers can interpret the timelines any way they want, in which case for me, i'm letting this go. LOL

i'll just start postulating on how writers will continue the saga. i think the iris/barry story will be a rocky one. i have zero clue as to how barry will turn into this gideon-creating genius because although he's smart he hasn't shown that level of genius. i'm really curious about cisco, though, and how he changes.

a couple of things about cisco,,,as i type.
1...in the original timeline, wells kills cisco
2...in the current timeline, wells is SURPRISED his other self killed cisco in another timeline. he also deduces that cisco is special.
3...in the current timeline, wells tells cisco that he(cisco) will go on to do great things. therefore, the original timeline where wells kills cisco no longer exists?,,,or maybe the eobard from this current timeline simply comes from a future where cisco never died.

Elektra

Here are some things I'd like to see in Season 2:

For Barry:
- More of "Local-Celebrity!Flash".
Eg:
A scene where Barry walks down the street and sees people selling Flash merchandise; or a bunch of people see him doing his super-heroing and want to take pictures of him, or try to grab a selfie with him. We already saw The Flash museum in a glimpse of the future, so we need to see the build up towards that.

- Heading towards the "proper" suit. Cisco already has the idea, so we should start seeing little alterations in the suit he wears now

- More confidence, where he doesn't always have to ask Cisco and Caitlin what he should do (the answer is always "go really fast" ). Yes, Cisco can still make neat gadgets and do things to the suit, Caitlin can still patch him up when he's hurt.... but Barry needs to start understanding his powers more, and figuring how to use them creatively on his own.

- I want to see Barry being smart. He built Gideon, apparently… so why haven't we seen him figuring out complex science-y stuff on his own? More CSI!Barry.

- Stop telling Iris how she feels. As much as I like WestAllen, this kind of annoyed me. Just leave the poor girl alone and let her come to terms with her feelings in her own time.

For Iris:
- First and foremost: NO ERASING IRIS'S KNOWLEDGE THAT HER BFF BARRY = THE FLASH!

*ahem* Just had to let that out. Now… let's continue.

- Friends that are not named Barry, Cisco, or Caitlin!

- More episodes with Iris' POV (about her feelings, her work, etc).

- Iris helping out S.T.A.R. Labs on a regular basis, using her work resources to help them track down metahumans. Like… give me scenes where Iris is actually out there trying to get the word on the street about the Metahuman-of-the-week, then bringing that info to Barry and the team.

- More Reporter-skillz!Iris, period.
Eg:
* I want to see an episode where she casually asks Barry for a Flash interview so she can get her editor off her back (since that's why he hired her in the first place). She then later finds out that the interview with her BFF has made her CCPN's star reporter.

* I also want to see Iris investigating stories unrelated to metahumans/The Flash. And when I say that, I mean I want to see her doing the actual footwork rather than "Oh yeah, there was this story I was looking into". Let's SEE her actually looking into the story, actually doing the groundwork, asking the questions, pissing off dangerous people. Show, don't tell (there was enough 'telling' with Iris/CCPN in Season 1, and hardly any showing).

I also want to see one of these investigations cross over with CCPD's investigation, and CSI!Barry. I want to see them working together to solve something non-metahuman, even if Barry uses his powers while they're investigating.

For Cisco:
- More "Vibe" hints. I mean, that portal in the season finale probably opened up a doorway to a few alternate universes, and we DID see Jay Garrick's helmet - already an alt!Flash - come through, so who's to say an alternate version of an actual person (or two.. or three... or more) didn't come through it (*cough*Eddie/Cobalt Blue starting the Thawne/Allen family feud*cough*), with Cisco being the only one who can sense the difference.

For Caitlin:
- Killer Frost hints with Ronnie being the only one who can "talk her down" so to speak. I mean, if Cisco's powers only started manifesting (possibly kick-started by Barry's 24-hour time travel), then Caitlin's powers can start manifesting too (with something else kick-starting them).

For Joe:
- Heart-touching Father/daughter scenes instead of heart-touching Joe/Barry scenes. As much as I enjoy J/B, we already had a season of that. It's J/I's turn,

- Mrs. West comes back from the dead and we find out a) She never died in the first place or b) See previous mention of alternate universe characters popping out through that big, messy portal.

- Possible love interest (the ADA?)

I think that covers it for now

Wingster

I'll read through that theory when I'm not so tired Elektra

LunaSolTierra

I miss the show so much. I've been watching flash videos all day instead of studying, and I plan to rewatch the pilot as well.

Boringblog

Not sure if this has been posted, but Barry Allen/The Flash is in the new Batman animated movie.

Hero of Time

You guys have a lot of speculation here . I'm taking some time to read everything and then I'll throw my 50 cents.

I read that Barry is the new Batman, my jaw dropped for a second . Thanks for the trailer .

Boringblog

I'm sorry if I got your hopes up. It's cool to see him fight along side Batman, Green Arrow, Nightwing, and Red Robin.

Wingster

Let's have that on this show! (wishful thinking)

Hero of Time

It's no problem . I'm a writer, so that possibility got my creativity at full speed for a minute .

Can you imagine the possibilities? Whoa .