Lauren Helen Graham

Aww, Marilyn. That wasn't what I was attempting. But I get how you feel because it's the same for me. Back then everything was okay still...

He tried to be her sineater and we still don't know why. Neither does she. She never asked.

Fangirl49

I know kris!

Rewatching S4 and wondering why Kaplan turned against Red. It’s got me back wondering why Red stayed in Lizs life once he had Tom out of the way.

I wonder in Luther Braxton he went on his own if that was his way of leaving and the danger to liz made him stay.

Logically to keep her safe he should have left. And now Kaplan seems to think he should have left.

But I think about the shows we go straight to the fulcrum to her killing Connolly. It’s like he had no choice but to stay.

I just don’t get it. Maybe I never will.

Miranda

I don't think that he had another choice but to stay cause if he would have left, Liz would have gotten killed I think cause nobody would have been there to protect her.

Lauren Helen Graham

I honestly don't believe he was about to leave in Luther Braxton... He wanted to leave but Liz came and stopped him. You know? Back in the season 1 finale. It was her choice, she told him to go and he wanted to until she appeared at his doorstep on the right time.

Why do we think him leaving her would have kept her safe? Who says that? We know that people in the government are so deeply involved into all of that, that I'm not so sure she would have been safe.

Kaplan though, her decisions, I don't get and I think I really never will.

Fangirl49

I’m just thinking about why Kaplan is so mad at him. All she says is you were too close to her and putting her in danger.

And yeah that makes no sense. Her career choice alone would put her in danger. Even Cooper says red put Liz in danger.

Like him entering her life caused all this. I guess it’s like you keep pointing out, they blame red and take no responsibility for their own choices. Kaplan agreed with Red when he entered Liz life but now he should he killed for it.

Lauren Helen Graham

It's always super nice to pick on the other one and not look at yourself It's normal human behavior, sadly. And they go full force.

I would never say that Red is innocent in that whole mess, but I think what they do is just too much for me. I can't take it anymore. And it's not always about that a person did something because we all make mistakes but the motive behind it. And the motive really often was a good one although he might have gone a bit too far sometimes.

Fangirl49

Totally agree. Red always seems super remorseful and I think he means it.

And yes he has pushed himself to be a criminal. That’s never who he was.

And I totally believe whatever guilt drives him now relates to the loss of his family and whatever role he played in the beginning of Lizs life. Whatever he believes he is responsible for that led to her being raised by Sam and killing her father.

Lauren Helen Graham

Exactly. It's not who he was, it's who he had to become I believe.

I'm still so curious how their relationship will evolve this season. I so pray that we won't go back to all the hate and iciness. I can't stand it anymore. I'm so worried since Katarina is around now.

Fangirl49

I need them to move on.

I think I would love for Red to have no memory of Liz and to meet her for the first time.

Lauren Helen Graham

How would that turn out, huh?

Fangirl49

In my mind it turns out great!!! Lolol.

Maybe it would let us have that S1 feeling without our anger at liz.

But yeah, I don’t think that would work. I don’t see how it could.

Lauren Helen Graham

In my mind it would, too... But we know that show, right?

Oh yes, the season 1 feeling... But I guess that wouldn't happen because she was so suspicious back then and it wouldn't be him knowing all about her life but the other way around. Not sure if that would be the same.

Fangirl49

Agreed. I’m kind of thinking his memories won’t be taken. I’m hoping liz will be frantic to save him and just totally choose him over everything else

Remeber when he told liz I don’t believe there’s anything I wouldn’t do to save you. I can’t get it right But I want liz to have that same feeling.

Lauren Helen Graham

I'm honestly not sad that they are not being taken because so much has happened and I couldn't take him forgetting about it...

I know what you mean. Who knows, maybe we'll get to see that feeling from her part. I would love that.

You know what I'm wondering about? If he'll be honest about Katarina being alive towards Liz. I'm really curious because I think he should be now that this thread is there.

Fangirl49

I wonder how he will treat Katarina being alive. I don’t think he will have a choice because it seems like she’s going to know from the beginning. Or at least that’s my feelings.

I need her to know and choose red.