Butterfly85

Yeah, another thing I've said many times is Fitz is not self aware of himself. He's worse than some people he lectures be he actually thinks he's pure as snow. He's a delusonal hypocrite. He also thinks his obsessive, psychotic actions are normal. It's why him being president is scary, he uses that to do what he wants or makes stupid decisions that affects everyone. Liv has issues and usually women subconciously are drawn to people like thier father and Rowan and Fitz are very much alike IE their manipulation, abuse, lies, ownage, and the pain they cause Liv. She basically loves being a punching bag, she has issues! Her parents really messed her up and it shows every single episode and by her actions.

lol Jake's not poor, he has millions of dollars but Jake has treated Liv better than other characters on the show. As for Liv loving Jake, that seems open to interpation. Like I've said many times, S4 showed she does love/is in love with Jake. I feel that season showed she loves Fitz and Jake. Even the actors have had interviews where they said Liv does love Jake, even TG had an interview saying that last year. Liv's actions truly shows he loves Jake, and SHE is the one that is always calling or going to Jake a majority of the time, same thing she's doing this season too. Just like with Fitz where she only wants him sometimes cause she can't have them (then bolts when she is bored) I feel she is kind of doing that with Jake this season, he has mostly kept her at arms length, then came home with a new wife, and has been hanging up on her and calling her on her bs. I feel when people push back against Liv that makes her want them more as well.

drunkalice

Oh right, the money for his mother! I forgot. Though I also meant it in a no-houses-in-Santa-Barbara, no-power way. He's basically a public employee, I think?
I think she loves him but I doubt she's in love with him. He gave her several chances to express those feelings and she never did, just like she never denied she was in love with Fitz when Jake said she was. I guess she was being honest. I loved that she once said he was family, sadly I also believe that's the (only) way she loves him, even if she probably tried to change that. Like you said, she treated her well and she apparently doesn't like that. It makes me really sad that he accepted to be a doormat so many times and I wish she would just leave him alone to lick his own wounds now, as opposed to constantly talking to him to ask for advice. She has friends for that. She has Abby for that. She has her freaking boyfriend for that.

Totally true. See how she reacted the very second she saw Elise. Suddenly she was done talking about herself and wanted to know about her; I thought the faces she was making were very telling. One interesting Olake dynamic would be for Olivia to do the chase for once. It might actually happen now that he hates her (though that hate is totally spreading from love).

DannyZuko78

How did season 4 show Olivia loving Jake? When she was captured it was Fitz she dreamed about. And when she thought of her time on the island, she always saw herself as being alone even though Jake was with her, so how is she in love with Jake? The whole kidnapping arc pissed on the Olake storyline.

Just seems like when it counts, Jake is always a non factor.

And Tony Goldwyn for the most part has always been pretty dismissive of Olivia's feelings for Jake. Like alot of us, to him, he sees their relationship more as a just a distraction/escape thing.

From his recent Hollywood Reporter interview:

He's been mostly saying this for 2 seasons now.

drunkalice

I paid attention to those flashbacks and that's not true. She even allucinated being saved by him (and she finds being saved offensive). What is true, though, is that she never thought only of Jake, as some other Fitz flashback or allucination would counterbalance. Because I really do doubt she is in love with him or ever even thought she might be. She knows it, he knows it, Fitz knows it.
If I have to credit Scandal for anything, at least it never gave us the I love both crap.

Srta_Parker

I agree. Olivia wasn´t in love with Jake. She cares about him but she has never been in love with him. Jakes was a runaway for her. Not only because she couldn´t be with Fitz but because she wasn´t ready to leave everything for him.

DannyZuko78

Remember in her dream from 4x22 it showed the whole island and all we would see was just Olivia and an empty chair. How was that not telling us that in the end, even though she was with Jake, she still felt as if she was alone?

Or what about her dream from 4x17?

Jake wasn't in either of those dreams. Both were about Fitz and all their moments and her running towards the red door.

And yes, I so agree that i'm also glad that they aren't doing the she loves both guys thing. I pray that doesn't change.



And here is Shonda talking about Olivia loving Fitz

From her September Elle magazine interview:

RM: People ask you, Why does Olivia only go out with white guys? She doesn't, but she is in love with the president.

SR: She is in love with the white, Republican president. She is in love with the man her father could not be more unlike. And that is what Rowan has been railing against. If you take it to its bare bones, metaphor scrubbed away, she is in love with the thing that her black father, who grew up in the 1950s and '60s, could not be more disgusted by.

Butterfly85

Oh okay, guess that makes me a liar then. In S4 TG had an interview where he says he does think Liv loves Jake. I also remember the actors that play Abby, Quinn, and Huck said they think Liv loves Jake too. TG isn't that dismissive after saying he thinks Liv loves Jake in that interview like I said, or the times he admitted to actually being jealous seeing SF and KW act in scenes together as Jake/Liv. Jake also isn't a non factor when Liv is always running to him, calling him, telling him everything about herself and her doubts of being with Fitz that she won't even tell Fitz, or willing to do anything to help or save Jake. Or all the times Fitz has shown jealousy towards their relationship, or saying her sleeping with Jake makes him crazy or like I said, he wanted to hurry up and kill Jake when he had the opportunity and perfect excuse cause of Liv, not the dead son he never thinks about. Plus the fact that Liv told Fitz that she knows Jake like she knows him and that she will be done with Fitz forever if he kills Jake shows he is not a non factor. Fitz only spared Jake cause he had hope Liv would take him back, all he obsesses about is Liv. Just like last season, he pretends he cares about giving Jerry justice but when push comes to shove he only cares about sleeping with Liv and keeping her as his property.

I also agree with Drunkalice, she dreamed of Jake saving her and she dreamed of sleeping with Fitz and Jake. The Vermont dream was another thing showing thier doomed and won't ever be a real couple so that's nothing to brag about. Like I said, Liv loving Jake is open to interpatation. If some of the actors have said in interviews they think that Liv loves Jake, then it's not that crazy to think it. Liv's actions showed in S4 that she loves him IMO. Liv has a problem usually verballizing her feelings. All the times Fitz has said ILY to Liv outside of two times, she was silent and didn't say it back. So why would she willy nilly say it to Jake too? She has issues and it's hard for her to open up, which is why I think it's very telling that the only person on the show she opens up to about her life, fear, feelings, etc. is Jake. I feel he knows her the best out of everyone on the show. Anyway, I believe Liv also loves Jake and I'm not the only one. If some disagree fine, I just don't get why it bothers them so much. Just like I don't believe what Fitz and Liv have is love. I see it as a toxic, destructive drug addiction and obsession. Plus abuse and Liv's mental issues highlights why she randomly puts up with it but I don't act like some thinking it's love is the end of my world, I just simply disagree. KW has said a few times herself she understands why some don't like Olitz and think thier abusive and unhealthy. Dang, I'm just speaking for myself and it's MY OPINION. No one's mind is ever going to be changed, I was talking to Drunkalice not trying to change anyone else's opinion. That's how I feel, and this show has many subtle things that you have to read between the lines about and Liv's feelings and possible love for Jake is one of those grey areas.

drunkalice

I think many OF fans dislike the idea that she may love Jake as much as Fitz dislikes her saying that she knew Jake the way she also knew him. I guess it's hard to accept a competitor that shows up halfway through S2 and "intrudes" as heavily as Jake does. But in my opinion Jake is a lot more than just a rival, he's someone that knows Liv in ways Fitz can never dream of. Not just becase he's put her on a pedestal and thinks "she's not Mellie", but also because J had an actual chance to get to know her in a normal everyday life.

Srta_Parker

I agree that Jake knows Liv in ways Fitz doesn´t but Fitz also knows Olivia in ways Jake doesn´t.

drunkalice

Very true, he knows an Olivia that feels deep love for him. I'm just not sure it's always a good thing. I want to make it very clear that I don't come from a place of anti-Olitz feelings. They were fine in S1. But going on I just lost that sense of them being good for each other.

Srta_Parker

I don´t think that in this show anybody can be good for anybody. All the characters has a dark side.

drunkalice

But that's because we all have a dark side imo, theirs just play with higher stakes. It doesn't mean they can never have a relationship that's good for them. The hard part is to find whom to have it with.

Srta_Parker

I know that beveryone has a dark side in life but in this show that dark side is very dark.

drunkalice

I forgot to say something about this, which is thank you for bringing this over because I never quite understood why Shonda made Fitz a Republican since he makes laws that are essentially Democratic. So it's basically about Eli and generally making OF as star-crossed as possible. I don't think it makes him so different from Eli though, sure their histories are COMPLETELY different but they're both as unlikeable as they can get and they both see Liv as property.

Srta_Parker

What Eli??