Against_all_odds

Francis isn't a saint at all. He has the right to have a mistress, but usually, his integrity makes him feel as if he'd be upsetting or disrespecting Mary. The one time he did go to Olivia, it can be counted against him. Also, the Tomas thing could have gotten Mary in a lot more trouble than it did.

If anyone thinks he's boring, it's because they don't grasp that his positive traits are disproportionate to his negative ones. I think I'd like him either way since it's historical canon, but I've never thought he was perfect. None of the other characters are.

Perfect character=Perfect Sue/Stu.

kindness is free

I don't think he is boring at all! He has his integrity and love for his country which often stops him from following his heart. He is learning and growing and will one day be king it is a great journey to watch unfold on the show

Against_all_odds

Neither do I, but people are stupid. I think his haters are the same kind who hate all nice characters or main couples. It tends to happen, but it's mostly directed at female leads. Since the show is about Mary, not liking her makes no sense.

tvd-love

tftnt!! Yay #3!

ds44

I don't get hating main characters. There is nothing to hate about mary or francis imo. They're well-developed and their motivations are clear and my heart bleeds for both.

ZariyahRice

I really don't understand what Francis has done thus far to rub people the wrong way, and cause them to hate him so much.. All I can come up with is that they just dont like him because they consider him a roadblock for their contrived couple a couple imo that doesnt even exist. I honestly dont care about the Francis haters because he is by far the most complexed character on the show. I know for a fact if Francis hadnt been on the show I wouldn't have even bothered watching.

firewall

So true. The development for Francis has far exceeded my expectations. I expected Mary to be well-developed, but the guys could have gone either way. Francis is a treat!

mercia12591

It's not that people hate Francis, per se. How can they, there's nothing to hate. It's the stupid PR Campaign that started before the show even aired. Torrance was known from the TUDORS before so he already had an established fan base.

I think, and I could be wrong.but most Bash supporters do not support his character as much as they support TORRANCE.

Add to that the fact that many of the viewers of Reign know nothing about history or the time period in which the show takes place. They judge the characters by modern standards. Standards that do not apply in the context of this show.

Francis taking a mistress, completely acceptable, even expected within the context of the time period. (RL Francis never had a mistress BTW he was faithful to and utterly enchanted by his wife. Very strange and unusual for the time. Olivia is as fake as Bash in as much as neither of them existed in history.)

Francis, as written on the show, is a 3D character, something most teenage girls have never seen on TV. They're used to cookie cutter characters. Give them a pair of gorgeous eyes and some corny lines and they're good, apparently...

Against_all_odds

I won't lie-Having seen him in the Tudors did draw my attention. However, I wanted to watch the show because dangling anything that has to do with history will automatically generate interest and enthusiasm.

However,his character was a creepy who raped a fat peasant woman and murdered her husband, all because he couldn't have sex with Henry's child bride.

By comparison, Bash is far more acceptable. If they start warping history a lot, I'm not going to be neutral.

I think they chose the CW because any other network would wonder wtf it's a good idea to be historically inaccurate. It would be embarrassing and CW is for little kids who like Japanese cartoons early in the a.m. and 13 year olds that haven't met the right guy just yet.

Neither do I. I mean, I've hated mains before, but it wasn't because they were mains. I despised Liz on Roswell, but it wasn't because she was the main character. I disliked her for god knows how many reasons-Same for Max. I hated Joey Potter, but it wasn't b/c she was the main.

kindness is free

I love the fact that Francis in real life didn't take a mistress , that he was so taken with his wife he didn't feel the need or want too.

He does have such a good heart

ring of fire

Can we please not talk about other fans? I love both Francis and Bash and it's not nice to come here and read nasty things about Bash/Torrance fans.


I agree with everything but many times people have gotten mad at me because I don't expect Francis to be Prince Charming or "perfect". Perfect characters are boring.

I love that he has flaws. Before the show started I was really afraid both guys were going to be Marty Stus.


That NEVER stops anyone. Female characters usually get most of the hate whether it's deserved or not.

Also with the internet and everything that comes with it it's pretty common that main characters ended up being overshadowed by secondary characters. I hate when writers pay way too much attention to loud fans online and twitter because some people expect secondary characters to become the leads. So far this show hasn't had that problem because none of the female character can overshadow Mary.

kindness is free

Nelly I agree j am a fan of both brothers and actors. They both have their flaws but that's what makes them more interesting.

I agree it is mostly female characters that get a lot of hate for no good reason.

ZariyahRice

Well I guess I shouldn't have used hate; how about they strongly dislike him for no apparent reasons. Francis was a little rude to Mary in the first episode because he didnt want to open himself up to her; but since then he has been a gentleman since. Well I for one didn't watch Tudors so I didnt have a clue who he was and still don't to be quite honest. I'm not really a big history nut; so I mostly get information I dont lnow from you . I judge a show off of how it's played on screen and that why Francis/Mary stole my heart; the fact that this pairing really existed is just the icing on the cake for me. Yes I agree some people really don't give a flying fig about history. I love the fact that Francis has morals and does not only think of himself. Francis loyalty is also another reason why I love him; the writers nor anybody else has to tell us about his loyalty because we see it play out on The screen instead of in the other case where people have to constantly tell us because its not visible to the human eye. I really can't believe they claim he is loyal when he is running with his brother's future wife and doesnt even consider his brother's feelings in the least everything ok as a long as he gets what he wants .. I really hope they never ever try and make Francis trust/love this clown again because that would be so not realistic. As I've stated before I'm only here for the Francis scenes so I most definitely won't be watching episodes 110-111 in any compacity.

firewall

Francis is complex, there's a lot of subtext to his words and actions. That's sometimes lost on people and they only see the action without thinking of the reasons for said action. If you ignore Francis' POV, then, of course, you're not going to like him, but his layers are the reason I love him as much as I do.

Not to mention that Toby is an i n c r e d i b l e young actor. So much talent; how has this kid never been on my screen until this show happened?

ZariyahRice

I completely agree with this entire post; imo Toby is the best actor on the show . Toby's acting ability is one of the main reasons I will never be able to hate/ dislike Francis no matter what he does; I'm always on his side