[kerbear28]

I'm just trying to get it out of my system so that I can begin to think about other things. I appreciate all of the lovely Gilmore Girls gifs you have been posting, Amanda.

[De Medici Queen]

well maybe I will... some day ...

I hope you guys have a great weekend!

I'm sooo glad this week is over... had 3 exams today and a presentation! I'm alive tho... it's fine soo tired!

[kerbear28]

You're still alive!!!! I'm so glad that you survived the week, Issi. I hope you are able to get some rest and recover this weekend.

Have a fantastic weekend, everyone!

[NotDoneAbusingYou]

Congrats on finishing those exams Issi.

Yes. Get it all out of our systems so we can go back to obsessing over Reign again. Not that we stopped obsessing...but we can go full time again. Haha

[kerbear28]

Yep. We have 10 weeks to crank up our full-time Reign obsession again before S4 premieres.

[NotDoneAbusingYou]

Originally Posted by kerbear28 (View Post) Yep. We have 10 weeks to crank up our full-time Reign obsession again before S4 premieres.

Trust me...I don't need 10 weeks.

[kerbear28]

I don't either.

[kategrinstead]

So long overdue. Sorry, Keri.

Originally Posted by kerbear28 (View Post) I am. I blame Milo. ... Jess and Luke's relationship is the BEST.

I grew up alongside Rory's timeline (I was 15 when the show first aired), so I totally understand her boy phases. I had my own Dean and my own Jess. I always liked the potential of Jess/Rory, but I didn't really like the reality of it. And in the end, the scene in "Keg! Max!" where they're in the bedroom just completely turned me off. I'm not a fan of character development that happens off-screen, and I feel like that's always the major place Jess's development/maturity happens. He didn't earn it for me. I wish him well, but I don't think he fits with Rory. His relationship with Luke, though, continues to be a beautiful thing -- and I think it's the one relationship where his character development was shown, rather than told/understood. I really enjoyed their scenes in the revival.

I've never been able to shake this couple - after all these years. The chemistry, the angst.

I'm laughing because that's exactly how I feel about Logan. A decade after the show's final season, I still can't shake him and his relationship with Rory. Matt's scenes in "Fall" absolutely gutted me. I watched with a friend and we stopped after the LADB section so we could each have a shot of rum -- I was so completely on edge and my heart was overworked.

Like I said on the Frary thread, I honestly love and appreciate Rory's relationships with all of her guys.

They each serve a very different purpose at very different junctures of Rory's life, and I appreciate that about each of them. There are so many different theories that float around about who each guy represents in parallel to Lorelai's men and so on and so forth, but I think each is a mixture because Rory isn't Lorelai; Logan isn't Christopher. I wholeheartedly believe that on so many levels.

I know a lot of folks are pretty upset that Rory's storyline was so messy, but I actually loved it. I felt like it was wholly in-line with her character. We like to think Rory is this perfect, little innocent thing -- but she hasn't been for a really long time. She has always had a plan and been lost when the plan gets derailed. Having started out in journalism and having embarked on a similar (but way less messy) journey to find out a new vocational path that really only ended this year (and is still fraught with uncertainty), I could go on and on about this ... but I'll stop here.

To answer your second question, Kate... I was not able to binge all 4 episodes at once. I watched the first 2 episodes on Saturday, and the last 2 episodes on Sunday. I was grateful that I took that small break.

I am SO glad I didn't binge all four at once (I simply couldn't due to family and time constraints). I finished "Winter" and I felt emotionally spent. I needed some buffer space between them. I had to brace myself to say, "Goodbye" once more to one of my favorite shows.

[kerbear28]

No worries, Kate! I loved reading your thoughts.

It's funny that you mention that bedroom scene in "Keg! Max!" I understand why it would turn you off... and even cause some people to label Jess as abusive. I definitely disagree with that assessment, though. I found this analysis of Jess (and his relationship with Rory) to be pretty thoughtful and well-done: Shapeshifters Anon (Growing together, a defense of Jess Mariano and...) Like the author, I'm a Jess fan, but I'm not a Jess apologist. I'm not saying he wasn't a terrible boyfriend when they were together or that his behavior was acceptable. I'm just saying that I understood his behavior and why he came to be so (for lack of a better phrase) "messed up." When you consider how he was raised - it makes sense that he was so unreliable, mistrusting and unable to communicate. He and Rory BOTH had to grow up and work through their own issues. They were just kids! Of course they couldn't make their relationship work when they were 17-years-old. However, I do think they have both grown in ways that might make them perfect for each other now. With the lack of Jess scenes after he was with Rory, I completely understand why you haven't seen enough of Jess' character development onscreen to satisfy you. For me, I've seen enough to believe that he has become a good man who the people he loves can rely on (see his relationship with Luke ). I've also seen that he and Rory still share a special understanding and that he is able to motivate and inspire her to be... better. That was enough for me.

Matt's scenes in "Fall" were amazing. They had me on the edge of my seat, too. I understand why you needed the rum. It was so intense and emotional. Believe me, I understand why people love Logan and love him with Rory. It's just... it's hard for me to support someone who would allow Rory Gilmore to settle for being the "other woman" for as long as he did. That's not loving. It's actually pretty cowardly. But like I said before, if having a child with Rory is what pushes him to stand up to his family and fully commit to their relationship...that's great. I just need to see him really choose HER. (I'll also point out that Jess is the only one of her guys who didn't involve Rory in cheating).

I don't think it's fair to try to construct clean parallels between Rory and her guys and Lorelai and her guys. It's just not that simple. Like you said... Rory isn't Lorelai, Logan isn't Christopher, and Jess isn't Luke. They are all unique people with unique relationships.

I guess I'm one of those people who was a little bit upset that Rory's storyline was so "messy." I don't need Rory to be a perfect innocent angel. I completely relate to being in your early thirties and STILL feeling a bit lost in your career and personal life. What disappointed me was Rory's SELFISHNESS. Her treatment of Paul and her "casual" affair with Logan. I'm sorry... it was horrible. Didn't she learn ANYTHING from her affair with Dean? I still love her, but it's just hard for me to respect that Rory.

[wickedrum]

only two spots left in the tournament to make sure your favourite gets in!

http://www.fanforum.com/f25/5th-annu...ions-63182431/

[kerbear28]

That's going to be an amazing survivor!

[kategrinstead]

Originally Posted by kerbear28 (View Post) It's just... it's hard for me to support someone who would allow Rory Gilmore to settle for being the "other woman" for as long as he did. That's not loving. It's actually pretty cowardly. But like I said before, if having a child with Rory is what pushes him to stand up to his family and fully commit to their relationship...that's great. I just need to see him really choose HER. (I'll also point out that Jess is the only one of her guys who didn't involve Rory in cheating).

I think my "ease" (for lack of a better term) with the storyline is that we don't get the beginning. We don't know what exactly the arrangement was or when they reconnected or what the deal is with his fiancee. We enter in the middle and we don't get all the pieces. Logan has always been about respecting Rory's own decisions and agency and I think you get that in spades in the revival. Matt said he played the scenes in "Fall" with the mindset of, "If you would just ask me not to do this ..." I don't think it's a matter of him fully committing to the relationship -- I think that rests on her. I think SHE is the coward. SHE, for whatever reason, would rather be the other woman.

I wish Jess nothing but the best, but I don't think Rory is right for him. He deserves better, in my opinion -- I wanted him to show up in the revival with a wife and a kid! And as for him not being a guy who involves Rory in cheating, I think that's only true insofar as his own responsibility. SHE is a horrible mess in cheating on other guys with Jess. She kisses him at the end of S2. She's emotionally cheating on Dean in the beginning of S3. She kisses him while she's with Logan in S7. Which brings me to ...

What disappointed me was Rory's SELFISHNESS. Her treatment of Paul and her "casual" affair with Logan. I'm sorry... it was horrible. Didn't she learn ANYTHING from her affair with Dean? I still love her, but it's just hard for me to respect that Rory.

Ugh. THIS. I don't know if I was disappointed because I didn't expect more from her. She begins the show as this innocent, brilliant girl and over the course of the seven seasons and the revival, she derails morally in SO many ways. I haven't really expected morally upright or others-conscious decisions from her in a very long time, so her course in the revival seemed natural/in line with her character to me. I don't agree with her choices, for sure, and they frustrate me because I had some small hope that she would figure out what her life should look like, but I didn't expect anything else (hopefully that makes sense). Someone said she was more like Christopher than Lorelai and my head just about exploded because I had never thought about that -- but I actually see it! Mind-blowing.

Obviously, I'm still thinking long and hard about the revival (I should probably rewatch again at some point), but I'm trying to channel it into some fic plotting. I've never written GG fic because it is SO difficult to make sound right! But I've got some fic bunnies hopping around, so you never know.

[kerbear28]

Originally Posted by kategrinstead (View Post) I think my "ease" (for lack of a better term) with the storyline is that we don't get the beginning. We don't know what exactly the arrangement was or when they reconnected or what the deal is with his fiancee. We enter in the middle and we don't get all the pieces. Logan has always been about respecting Rory's own decisions and agency and I think you get that in spades in the revival. Matt said he played the scenes in "Fall" with the mindset of, "If you would just ask me not to do this ..." I don't think it's a matter of him fully committing to the relationship -- I think that rests on her. I think SHE is the coward. SHE, for whatever reason, would rather be the other woman.

I guess I never thought of it that way, but that's probably true. We don't know the entire situation surrounding the affair. Not that anything would really excuse the behavior for either of them. However, I'm sure there are extenuating circumstances. At the end of the day, it takes two people to have an affair (and decide to continue it). Logan doesn't deserve all of the blame. Rory is just as responsible as he is for the situation they are in. It makes sense that Rory would be the one with commitment issues. It makes me sad that Rory would choose to settle for being the other woman, but fear and insecurity make you do crazy things.

Originally Posted by kategrinstead (View Post) I wish Jess nothing but the best, but I don't think Rory is right for him. He deserves better, in my opinion -- I wanted him to show up in the revival with a wife and a kid! And as for him not being a guy who involves Rory in cheating, I think that's only true insofar as his own responsibility. SHE is a horrible mess in cheating on other guys with Jess. She kisses him at the end of S2. She's emotionally cheating on Dean in the beginning of S3. She kisses him while she's with Logan in S7.

We can agree to disagree about whether or not Jess and Rory could ever be right for each other. However, I do agree that, at this point, Jess deserves much better. It's hard for me to see him still pining for a girl who rejected him years ago. I guess it would have made more sense if all this was happening when they were in their 20s and not in their 30s. Like I said before, I don't think Rory deserves Jess right now, either.

You are completely right about Rory being a mess in cheating on other guys with Jess. But as you implied, Jess isn't really responsible for that. Those situations were initiated by Rory. I was just pointing out that Jess never let himself get sucked into a full-blown affair. Blame him all you want for breaking up Dean and Rory, but he made sure that they had broken up (and that he had broken up with Shane) before he and Rory officially got together.

Originally Posted by kategrinstead (View Post) Ugh. THIS. I don't know if I was disappointed because I didn't expect more from her. She begins the show as this innocent, brilliant girl and over the course of the seven seasons and the revival, she derails morally in SO many ways. I haven't really expected morally upright or others-conscious decisions from her in a very long time, so her course in the revival seemed natural/in line with her character to me. I don't agree with her choices, for sure, and they frustrate me because I had some small hope that she would figure out what her life should look like, but I didn't expect anything else (hopefully that makes sense). Someone said she was more like Christopher than Lorelai and my head just about exploded because I had never thought about that -- but I actually see it! Mind-blowing.

You're right. I really shouldn't have expected more of Rory given how much she has gone off the rails morally over the course of the series. I guess part of me is still hanging on to that innocent, brilliant and caring girl we met in Season 1. Regardless, it's frustrating to see her make those choices that hurt herself and others.

Oh my gosh! I can definitely see that Rory is more like Christopher than Lorelai in some ways. That really is mind-blowing! I would never have put that together.

Originally Posted by kategrinstead (View Post) Obviously, I'm still thinking long and hard about the revival (I should probably rewatch again at some point), but I'm trying to channel it into some fic plotting. I've never written GG fic because it is SO difficult to make sound right! But I've got some fic bunnies hopping around, so you never know.

You writing a GG fic would be AMAZING!!!! I'm sure it would be difficult to get the feel and pacing of the dialogue to sound right, but I have faith that you could do it.

[kategrinstead]

Originally Posted by kerbear28 (View Post) We can agree to disagree about whether or not Jess and Rory could ever be right for each other. However, I do agree that, at this point, Jess deserves much better. It's hard for me to see him still pining for a girl who rejected him years ago. I guess it would have made more sense if all this was happening when they were in their 20s and not in their 30s. Like I said before, I don't think Rory deserves Jess right now, either.

I'm married to a Jess fan, so I'm not hostile about it. If you were an apologist, I might get on your case a little. There's a HUGE difference between being willing to recognize what is on the screen for what it is and defending a character to no end. I truly hope for good things for Jess because I do believe he has grown -- I just don't feel he and Rory are a good fit.

It makes me think of this guy I was involved with in high school who ended up being a ginormous tool and finally appears to have gotten his life together (so many years later) -- but even with his life together, he wouldn't have ever been the right guy for me. (I put a ring on the right guy nearly ten years ago. ) That's kind of how I view Jess and Rory.

Oh my gosh! I can definitely see that Rory is more like Christopher than Lorelai in some ways. That really is mind-blowing! I would never have put that together.

RIGHT?! I never would have put it together myself, but I see it every time I watch now. I kind of want to rewatch the entire series to see if it's really there all the way through.

You writing a GG fic would be AMAZING!!!! I'm sure it would be difficult to get the feel and pacing of the dialogue to sound right, but I have faith that you could do it.

LOL. Thanks for the support. I haven't been doing much writing at all lately and I miss it. Laura has been watching GG as long as I have (and has written fic over the years that does get pretty darn close to that Gilmore feel), and I think I could coerce her into helping me find the right feel and pace. I think it will help that my main idea isn't from the POV of one of the girls.

[NotDoneAbusingYou]

I had been thinking of writing a GG fiction myself. But I have so many Reign one started already and a few in mind to do next. Not to mention I have a Hercules and Xena fiction I started like 2 years ago and never finished because I got all sucked into Basherine fiction.