Sweet Embrace

Haha, I think we're lucky the number of fans we have, I say, whatever reason they can like them.

Natasha Romanoff

Feels

The only thing you really fight for is yourself. You’re not the guy to make the sacrifice play.
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looking at the stars

oh great one

BryceLarkinFanForever

Ugh that argument scene on the helicarrier was the one time during the movie that I actually wanted to punch Captain America...I know it was a lot of frayed nerves and Loki's spear influence but those words were exactly the kind of things that Tony always takes to heart whether true or not, it made his comebacks seem like desperate snarks to cover up his own hurt - I can't imagine having the mistakes you are now trying to make up for thrown back at your face by the one guy your father never stopped talking about and was probably your childhood hero was something Tony took well to.

For that moment, it made me feel like Steve was almost unnecessarily cruel in a way I haven't seen him before and it just really made me feel angry at him for throwing judgment and feel protective of Tony. I don't know what set Steve on the offensive there making one cutting sentence after another, maybe it was because he was just frustrated and upset or maybe Loki's influence did more but those were judgments that I never thought Steve would dish out considering how he was judged his whole life, I guess I expected better. In that moment I remember I was reminded of Dr. Erskine's words to Steve about being careful to never forget to be a good man and the dangers of what could happen with the serum when arrogance and self righteousness can manifest.

Natasha Romanoff

Yeah, I do think that Steve is off in that scene. I mean they might have different opinions of each other, and that he might not like Tony, but I think it's too much for him to accuse Tony of that

hiddleskittlesღ

RDJ was #2
10 Best Comic Book-Based Movie PERFORMANCES of All Time | Newsarama.com

BryceLarkinFanForever

I mean, I didn't mind most of their snipping at each other, they were actually funny and they just have a difference of opinion but just that one moment on the helicarrier it was like I was suddenly seeing this side of Steve that could have been what he would be like if he was more like Red Skull and was a bully instead, this sense of self righteous stubbornness as if he was the only one who get to decide who is a hero and worthy or not, and I didn't like it at all, even Tony's comeback of "everything special about you came out of a bottle" didn't seem pack any usual punch at all.

It's like in one moment, Steve managed to hit all of Tony's weak spots without even noticing that he was doing it - I don't think I ever seen Tony's eyes look more hurt than he was in that moment, like somehow he had let down the one person he never wanted to.

I found this picture of RDJ that cracks me up he's wearing a Stark hat - RDJ PICTURE

Sweet Embrace

I completely agree. I mean Tony is my favourite and it seemed like in that moment, Steve was being quite cruel which is something I didn't expect. Its like Steve didn't give him much respect.

Haha robert, you cutie you

BryceLarkinFanForever

Steve was really for the jugular there again and again, and all Tony doing was back pedaling and trying to come up with some witty defense against this barrage of attacks on his worth as a human being - the only other time I ever really seen this kind of cruelty leveled at Tony from Steve was during the civil war comics - and it's that same kind of sense of self righteousness and convinced that he's right that I felt like Steve just went too far over the line.

He couldn't have hurt Tony more of he'd just ripped out his heart...that time of anger was something I expected better from Steve, and I don't know if it was left over rage and just lots of frustration bottled up and Tony was a convenient target, but I hope to see some apology for that in TA2 - I know they respect each other more now but it'd be nice to hear it actually said.

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And yes, Robert is a cutie - he is Tony Stark LOL

Sweet Embrace

Yeah even the liners that Tony said, I felt weren't as bad, Steve can be really harsh and I hope he does apologise or make it up to him. Its hard hearing it from him. I mean I think Tony does take things to heart too.

BryceLarkinFanForever

Tony's comeback was "genius billionaire playboy philanthropist" which was in all honesty a defensive witty comment, and his other remark leveled at Steve about how "a hero like you? You're a laboratory experiment Rogers, everything special about you came out of a bottle" was rather tamed in comparison to the accusations thrown back at him, and once again was a strike back at something that was aimed at him first. Steve went on the offensive, struck first and judged someone.

I have to question, what footage was Steve watching and what files was he reading to get him to make those kind of comments and judgments at Tony?

Natasha Romanoff

I think he said something about the Tony saving the child, right? but I thought it was actually a moment showing Tony in a good way, so I'm not quite sure about it.

Sweet Embrace

Yeah I thought what Tony said was not even that insulting, but obviously Steve had been reading up on Tony to use some of the information he knew like that.

Natasha Romanoff

I think... Steve probably thinks that a true hero needs not to stay in the spotlights so he doesn't agree with what Tony is doing?

BryceLarkinFanForever

What he said was "I've seen the footage, the only person you really fight for is yourself" - no mention of a kid but he was saying Tony isn't the one make a sacrifice play and how he knew men with none of the money and fame that are worth ten of Tony.

Clearly he made a surface and shallow judgment - maybe he was expecting Howard Stark's son to be different but again, he made a biases judgment on what he saw without probably reading the full files and frankly that was a disappointmenting moment to me from Steve because I expected him to be the bigger man, not get down to a bully's level, especially from a man who said he doesn't like bullies.

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I just thought of something else while I was reading tumblr posts - the scene of Tony and Steve after Coulson's death when they were talking - Tony had that one line of "he should have waited..." - did anyone thought the way he was saying it, how hard Coulson's death hit him was just like Yinsen back in IM? Yinsen should have waited and stuck to the plan and got out, except he died giving Tony a chance to live, and now here once again Coulson didn't wait, jumped into a confrontation, and subsequently died giving Tony and the others a chance to fight back. Again Tony probably blamed himself for this.