[street serenade]

^I love everything about your post, Teri.

I think a lot of Jake/Ham fans feel the same way. People want them to end up together, but at the same time most everyone sees that Jake and Spencer have a connection, too. I have to applaud Nicky for how she treated Spencer's character. It would've been all too easy for a writer to villify him, but she created him and treated him fairly, and he ended up being a sympathetic character.

I think Jake's independence frightens Hamilton to a degree, but Spencer is a little more in sync with Jake's mindset that it doesn't irk him so much.

[melon_collie]

Originally Posted by street serenade (View Post) ^I love everything about your post, Teri.

Aw shucks

Originally Posted by street serenade (View Post) ^I think Jake's independence frightens Hamilton to a degree, but Spencer is a little more in sync with Jake's mindset that it doesn't irk him so much.

Definitely. You can tell that Spencer is in awe of Jake and her entire persona, whereas Hamilton loves her for it too but sees it almost as something that will lead her to leave him one day. It reminds me of my absolute favorite line in the entire continuation. And I will not do it an injustice by paraphrasing it so excuse me while I zip away to find it.

[melon_collie]

Found it!

"He looked up, his eyes like blank blue glass. "What would I say? It's up to her, it always is. That's how we work, Jake and me." A pause, and he added quietly, "Sometimes I hate her for it." "

That line punched me in the gut the first time I read it and it never fails to have the same impact every time since. I think it's always been an unspoken truth that Jake is the less attached one of the two and right there Hamilton finally says it out loud and acknowledges it & the fact that he resents her for it. It's so powerful to finally hear him admit that he's basically put himself at Jake's mercy and he hates being in this position but what can he do? He loves her.

[street serenade]

Originally Posted by melon_collie (View Post) Found it! "He looked up, his eyes like blank blue glass. "What would I say? It's up to her, it always is. That's how we work, Jake and me." A pause, and he added quietly, "Sometimes I hate her for it." " That line punched me in the gut the first time I read it and it never fails to have the same impact every time since. I think it's always been an unspoken truth that Jake is the less attached one of the two and right there Hamilton finally says it out loud and acknowledges it & the fact that he resents her for it. It's so powerful to finally hear him admit that he's basically put himself at Jake's mercy and he hates being in this position but what can he do? He loves her.

I need to reread that last installment of Nicky's fiction.

I feel sorry for Hamilton here, yet I also see how he made it worse for himself with all the intense clingyness(is that a word?).

I think Hamilton loves Jake for her unconventionality, yet at the same time a part of him wants normality, in regards to their relationship, and it's difficult for him to accept that maybe a life with Jake requires him to live outside of the box with her.

[melon_collie]

Originally Posted by street serenade (View Post) I think Hamilton loves Jake for her unconventionality, yet at the same time a part of him wants normality, in regards to their relationship, and it's difficult for him to accept that maybe a life with Jake requires him to live outside of the box with her.

Well put. Life with Jake means an understanding that you're not going to be dating your average teenage girl. Even past the whole cross-dressing thing, Jake is still startlingly unique. Look at her family life. Look at her lifestyle. Jake challenges everything Hamilton ever knew about home, love and happiness. And it's hard to have your worldview challenged at that age. Jake knows that Spencer is more receptive to that. And Hamilton knows it too.

[street serenade]

Yeah. I think there would come a point where they both realize that they don't make sense anymore, as a couple. I guess in Nicky's fic that's what's going on, they're reevaluating the situation by stepping back.

[wolkenfuehlen]

I definitely need to catch up on my NB!!

Originally Posted by street serenade (View Post) I really liked the idea of Jake going to Edmund because it allowed Jake and Hamilton to figure out who they were as individuals. What they found was they were two very different kinds of individuals, though.

Letting Jake go to Edmund once the secret was out is really the only way for it to happen. You're right, it's nice to see them as individual people, instead of JakeandHam.

Originally Posted by street serenade (View Post) What are everyone's thoughts on the current storyline for Nicky's Jake and Ham...and Spencer?

I like Spencer so much. You know from the first second that he and Jake just fit, and as the story evolved you could totally understand why Jake was doing the things she did. That's the problem I had with NB, that it happened so fast.

Originally Posted by street serenade (View Post) Yeah. I think there would come a point where they both realize that they don't make sense anymore, as a couple. I guess in Nicky's fic that's what's going on, they're reevaluating the situation by stepping back.

I really like that, though, because that is exactly the thing I would imagine would happen once you've dated for so long and have been through so many things. I don't see them having their great big happy ending in the last installment of the series. I can't see it going there from where the last episode left of...

Originally Posted by melon_collie (View Post) I think it's always been an unspoken truth that Jake is the less attached one of the two and right there Hamilton finally says it out loud and acknowledges it & the fact that he resents her for it.

I wouldn't say that Jake is less attached, she's just... she can be alone, you know? Sometimes it feels like Hamilton without Jake couldn't survive, and I don't think it's exactly like that the other way around. I would've always thought that Jake would be the one to break up (if one of them was to break up). Even in NB, she is the one that ends the relationship when Ham is interested in Alyssa (?), isn't she? She's always in charge.

[melon_collie]

Originally Posted by wolkenfuehlen (View Post) I wouldn't say that Jake is less attached, she's just... she can be alone, you know? Sometimes it feels like Hamilton without Jake couldn't survive, and I don't think it's exactly like that the other way around. I would've always thought that Jake would be the one to break up (if one of them was to break up). Even in NB, she is the one that ends the relationship when Ham is interested in Alyssa (?), isn't she? She's always in charge.

I think that's what's so hard on Hamilton. Knowing that she could live without him. And she definitely is always in charge. Maybe it's because so much of her home life is out of her hands? It just seems like she's developped the ability to walk away so that she'll never get hurt. You wrote on the Scout thread (I think) that you don't see them getting a happy ending in Nicky's fic. And I think that maybe they're best option is to end their highschol romance and hopefully if Nicky ever writes a futurefic they'll end up together then.

[avasadie]

It is so hard. I totally see all your points about Jake and Hamilton needing to step away from each other, and how well Jake and Spencer seem to be together, but i still can not see Jake and Ham apart. I want them to end up together in the end. Call me a die hard romantic but I really love the idea of them being soul mates.

[melon_collie]

^ I understand that completely. But I think you can end up together in the end without being together in the middle (if that made any sense?) What I'm trying to say is that they probably need a break to grow up and define themselves and then get back together and be the soulmates we know they are. I think their future relationship will be a milllion times stronger if they don't spend the whole time since highschool together. So if Jake goes off with Spencer, it definitely doesn't mean she and Hamilton won't get back together and spend the rest of their lives together.

And this isn't just for Jake's benefit. Hamilton needs time to learn how to be "Hamilton without Jake". I think it's lovely how devoted and committed he is, but he's doing himself a disservice by defining his whole identity around another person. It's like he's losing himself in her and it's not healthy and will probably bite them both in the ass later on if they don't do something about it now.

I definitely do agree with you that Jake and Ham deserve a happy ending. I hope Nicky could write a futurefic to explore them as adults. I'd be fascinated to see read that.

[street serenade]

I agree in that I think a couple is stronger if they know who they are as individuals. Most of the time that require people to spend time apart.

[s e r e n i t y]

Wow its almost new threa time, you guys are fast posters.

[street serenade]

I think we owe it all to Ava and Teri, they've really gotten some J/H conversations going.

[s e r e n i t y]

I know there's some extremely deep conversations going on here

[melon_collie]

Originally Posted by street serenade (View Post) I think we owe it all to Ava and Teri, they've really gotten some J/H conversations going.

Oh shush, you know you deserve alot of the credit

And yay! A new thread! Not to sound like a total newbie but this is my first "new thread is coming" moment.