I hadn't even thought of that! OMG it DOES!!! Wow, I think I need to go back and watch that awesome scene again. God I love everything about episode 8.


And the "I'm here" just makes Branson so endearing. I just wanted to hug him for being too nervous to use, what was expected to be, proper etiquette.

BTW, do you think that Tom told Sybil that her father had tried to buy him off? I think that he rather didn't tell her that in order not to hurt her or cause another rift between her and her father. At least I don't think that he told her before they left for Ireland. With Cora's illness and Lavinia's death, he would have just added another thing to her worries. And after they left, she was so happy because of Robert's blessing that I don't think he wanted to spoil this joy. Maybe he told her some time later after their marriage, but I don't think earlier than that.

I personally think that Tom did tell Sybil about her father buying him off. It would have been after the start of Cora's recovery and before Robert gave them his blessing. I see them as a couple who share everything so that the burden is lighter. I can't imagine that they didn't stay in contact after Cora started recovering from the flu and before the funeral and they would have shared everything with one another. Sybil isn't someone who wants to be sheltered and I don't see Tom being someone who can keep secrets very well.

Yikes! So many good discussions. Not sure can remember all of them, but as for a few.

LOL at the bed between the two of them. Never thought of/noted that. I am not sure that Tom would have told Sybil about the "generous" offer. Let me think about that....hmmm...still not sure. Do love it when Tom says "What?". Incredulous look there and when he's told to leave the village. Just don't get it my lord, do you?
I also don't understand why some think Tom is so rude. He states in that scene, "with all due respect, your lordship" and, as mentioned, doesn't say anything in the drawing room until seducing is brought up (I saw and maybe he felt Sybil winch/flinch). And, after all, he's been made to wait yet again, so they can do things right and then gets accused of that. I can understand his reaction.

Okay. Boy, girl baby, boy, girl baby. I can live with either though I'd still like it to be a girl because, as I think Patano stated, they can change the world for her. Additiionally, there's the plus of seeing Tom with a little girl. To me, there are not many things as appealing to sexy as a manly man with his little girl. Melts me. But I am flexible on the this...a boy would be good, too. I do want them to be happy about whatever child they have...Sybil can stress some, but I will be really "distressed" (used a more forceful word, but edited it out!), if they are shown as unhappy with the decision they made to marry. Really, I will.

I actually don't mind if they are shown to be having some serious growing pains. It's only natural. Which is not to say they would regret their decision but rather that they would realize it's much harder than they expected. And the baby will really force them (all of them) to come to terms with what their marriage means. Will the little half Posh/half Irish baby be accepted? What religion will s/he be? Etc. Etc.

I always guessed Tom did not tell Sybil about the bribe because he thought she would be too hurt and he didn't want to make things worse between her and her father. Because really, given his upbringing he probably has a pretty thick skin. He can handle being insulted by LG but Sybil would feel the insult on a deeper level.

Yes, Sybil would have been hurt from being told about the bribe, but think of how she would feel about her father not coming to her wedding to Tom if she didn't know about the bribe. I think it would have been a harder slap in the face if that were the case.

I'm rather sure that they won't regret their decision. It would be a total waste of all the build-up and cosideration Fellowes introduced especially to make it realistically succesful. If they had made an impulsive, quick decision without taking all sorts of things of consideration, then I would be worried about it, but as such I'm not worried at all.

Similarly, Sybil DID grow up and develop thanks to her nursing. At the end of the war she's no longer this spoilt and naive girl we saw in s1. She's no longer even this girl at the beginning of s2 who could not perform simple household tasks. She's better prepared for a new life than an average aristocratic girl. I'm actually sure that the Branson family was surprised that, contrary to their expectations, she could e.g. bake a cake. It might not have been all easy at first but she's a strong woman and Tom is willing to help her with everything, to "devote every minute to her happiness" (what I'm actually worried is that he will spoil her too much ;)). They'll just be overcoming any challenges together.

Anyway, Fellowes skipped Sybil's first monts of adjusting to the new situation, so I don' t think we'll see any of this now. It's going to be nearly a year since their left Downton; if any, she may find it hard to re-adjust again to the old way of doing things when they arrive at DA.

I think that their source of angst wil be mainly connected with the Anglo-Irish situation, Tom's political disillusionment and reconcilliation with the family, maybe some religion issues.

Anyway, their marriage needs to be succesful and happy to illustrate Fellowes' message about social change. It is not a 19th century melodrama or a morality tale for aristocratic girls with a warning not to marry outside your class, but a show about social change.

My biggest concern is that Fellowes will not give them the amount of screentime they deserve.

I always assumed that Tom hadn't told Sybil about Robert's attempt to buy him off... Or at least, he didn't tell her before the scene at the funeral. She looked far too happy at her father's approval to know about that I think. But maybe he told her at a later date. :shrug:

Thats an interesting point & could definitely be interesting! :nod:

I actually think that Sybil is forgiving enough that even if she were to know that her father tried (and really what father Robert's position wouldn't) to bribe Tom that she would still be happy with his blessing. She wants to remain friends with everyone and I think it's important for her to know that Tom didn't take the bribe.

Scarlet, then do you also think he told her her father told him to leave the village? I'm guessing so because, if he told her about the bribe, why not the rest?
I suppose, if one needs to make lemonade from lemons, it is a good thing that JF doesn't give us much of their story. Gives us something to discuss, doesn't it? Yes, I know that is a really reaching for the silver lining and I am hoping for better in S3.

I really don't want to see them, as a couple, become so stressed by changes (more Sybil) and potential disappointments (more Tom) that it effects their relationship negatively. Instead, I hope (perhaps naively) that these issues will bring them closer together as support for each other. Unfortunately, rarely get what I want...but remain hopeful (or is it stubborn?:)) anyways.

alertthecorgis - Yes, I believe that Tom told her everything (which is how I wrote it in my FF). They were battling everyone at Downton at the time and to fight the good fight, you need to share all battlefield information with your co-commander in the war. I saw it as the same thing as Sybil telling Tom about her confrontation with her father and her grandmother in her bedroom the morning(?) after and though we didn't see it, I thought Sybil would want to share that bit with Tom even if it was for no other reason than to just vent.

The way I see Sybil and Tom is that they lean on one another for support through change, through difficulties, through challenges and they support one another in everything and it may not be good for drama, but it's like they are circling the wagons so that they have better defences and if you watch 2x08, it feels as though both Sybil and Tom know that they have each other's backs and they are just battling everyone (though it was really mainly Robert). Remember in their story, all the issues they have faced have been external (family, peer, societal, monetary, etc.), unlike M/M where (outside of Pamuk and Matthew didn't even know about that until late) most of their issues have been internal.

If you want to know about Tom's potential disillusionment, look up the history of Socialism in Ireland in the early 20th century and a guy named James Connelly. Despite ripe conditions (poverty in the slums of Dublin, etc. ) Socialism had trouble gaining traction in Ireland until it's proponents made common cause with the Nationalists against their shared enemy, the British Empire (!). It reached it's peak in 1913 (!) but ultimately lost out to the cause of Independence and the influence of the Church.

So yes, I could see him being disappointed, since he values economic and social equality over all.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Catholic, but I would like it if he were vocally in favor of women's right to family planning.

Not surprising that socialism didn't come about in Ireland since Socialism advocates abandonment of church and that's a big no-no in Ireland of the time. However, I never thought that Tom was looking for socialism to have a go in Ireland. He was happy for socialism to work in Russia, but he never seemed to advocate it specifically for Ireland.

As for disillusionment, I'm not quite sure that it would be due to lack of socialism working in Ireland. At the time there was still the Russian Civil War to be fought between the Bolsheviks and White movement which the Bolsheviks won in 1922 (which is outside the timeline for S3). Perhaps it was the discontentment he saw after the Irish Free State that would eventually be established that would lead to the Irish Civil War. Again that doesn't start until 1922, so outside S3 timeline. ETA Alternatively, it could be the disillusionment of the Irish Free State as perhaps he was hoping for a full republic which won't occur until 1937.

I only want to say that I completely I agree with this :).

As for the political disillusionment, I’ve been thinking more about the fact that he’s non-violent, so I suppose that he’ll hate all the violence connected with the Anglo-Irish war even if he fully supports Irish freedom. I wonder how he’ll view his countrymen’s treatment of English people taking into consideration that his own wife is an Englishwoman. When it comes to politics, I also think that he’ll have to become less politically active for the sake of Sybil and the baby.

Regarding Robert's attempted buy-off of Tom, I don't think Sybil would be terribly surprised. As Tom said "those people" think they have the monopoly of honor and that money and position can fix any situation. IMO its one of the things Sybil is rebelling against.

Also, LG and his ilk were constantly on the alert for people trying to con them, blackmail them. There was the guy in series 1 who asked for money not to expose Carson's past on the Vaudeville stage.Ethel's baby grandpa (can't remember his name) jumped to exactly the same conclusion about her.

So while Sybil wouldn't have been exactly pleased, she wouldn't have been surprised that Papa would do anything, including bribery, to regain control of the situation. IMO the major outcome of her knowing would have been to reaffirm her confidence in Tom and in her decision that she wanted to live a different life.

Completely agree. I believe the best story for both young Bransons would be an exploration of where idealism meets reality. For Sybil, its actually living the non-posh life, especially in a place inherently hostile to her and while unexpectedly pregnant. For Tom, it would be the abstract idea of revolution versus the harsh, violent reality, especially with a wife and child at stake.

JF got alot of criticism for damaging the Tom character by having him shrug off the Romanov killings(which he had predicted would never happen) so easily in S2. He was disillusioned about that for like 2 seconds before quickly using it as another jab at Sybil that she should be willing to make big sacrifices. It would be really interesting IMO to see how his political thinking is challenged when the safety of his own family is in danger.

I'm pretty confident if we did get these stories, they would only make the Bransons stronger as a couple, not to speak of making their story more realistic. I don't think JF would walk them back as a couple at this point, and if he does (don't hate me) I think it will only be by having one of them die.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the only place we'll actually get this story is in our heads and on this board. In all likelihood Sybil's big adjustment and Branson's political disillusionment will only be addressed in passing reference and their main story will be whether Granny makes snide remarks at dinner when Tom uses the wrong fork.