Nikita - Nikita Off Topic #5 - Division Lounge - Page 5

FrellingTralk · 12-21-2013, 04:24 AM

Ooh how are Bates Motel and The Walking Dead, those are two shows I've been meaning to check out?

**PhoenixRising** · 12-21-2013, 04:40 AM

Yes, AHS has a different story with different characters each season, although many of the characters are played by the same actors season after season.

The first season was about the dysfunctional Harmon family(Dylan McDermott, Connie Britton, Taissa Farmiga) moving into a house in Hollywood, Los Angeles, which is haunted by the ghosts of everyone who had died or been murdered there; season two took place in an insane asylum in New England in the 1960's which featured a man wrongfully jailed for killings he did not commit who experiences alien abductions, a demonically possessed nun, a skin mask-wearing serial killer, a serial killer in a Santa Claus outfit, an ex-Nazi doctor conducting experiments to create cannibalistic mutants, and a musical number set to "The Name Game"; and season three is set in an academy for gifted young women in New Orleans that is a front for a witch coven, which is under siege by a voodoo cult and a group of witch hunters.

Jessica Lange, Evan Peters, Lily Rabe, Sarah Paulson, and Frances Conroy have so far been in all three seasons, playing different characters in each one.

Taissa Farmiga was in season one but skipped season two, and is back in season three as Zoe, one of the witches at the academy.

The Walking Dead and Bates Motel are both awesome shows!

The Walking Dead is already halfway through its fourth season, so you'll have to hurry if you want to catch up, but Bates Motel will be just starting its second season in the spring.

YoursToHold · 12-21-2013, 04:14 PM

I have way too many shows I watch, but losing Nikita & HIMYM this year is definitely a killer

The Walking Dead is great though!

FrellingTralk · 12-21-2013, 05:46 PM

Is HIMYM good the whole way through do you feel? I watched the first season on itunes recently and would love to pick up the complete series, but a lot of people have said that it really goes downhill later on?

YoursToHold · 12-21-2013, 06:12 PM

It has always been one of my favorites so I feel like I am a bad person to ask. This final season has mostly been filler episodes, so I don't feel like it has been as good. But everywhere I read everyones says it has really gotten worse. I don't know though.

**PhoenixRising** · 12-21-2013, 07:56 PM

HIMYM was great in its first five seasons, but went downhill after they began with the whole Barney/Robin wedding thing, which started with flash-forwards in season six.

Even though I still love the show, I cannot accept that Ted and Robin will not end up together and that she'll end up with Barney(in a totally dysfunctional relationship) and Ted will end up with the mother, who is turning out to be a total Mary Sue character with whom he has almost no screen time with.

This is an article I pulled off of a blog which sums up my feelings about HIMYM and Ted and Robin better than I ever could. Forgive me if it's a little long:

Spoiler:

Quote:

What HIMYM Means for a Ted Mosby, and Why Robin Had To Be the Mom

Of all the many, many positive changes that result from leaving summer in the rear-view every September, one that has relevance to this blog is the return of a regular TV schedule. And one returning show that has relevance to this author is the oft-discussed “How I Met Your Mother.”

While the show has produced an undeniably high number of great moments, it has also somehow managed to provoke more conversation than you would expect for a network sitcom. Maybe that’s because of its teasing premise, where viewers have been able to speculate on the identity of the titular character. Maybe it’s because the show started out so spectacularly before running out of ideas midway through its run, leaving devotees frustrated and critics vindicated.

For various reasons, this show has meant a lot to me, so writing a piece on it was long overdue. I won’t bother with a general recap, but will instead focus on a few key aspects that have piqued my interest—a freedom that allows me to willfully ignore certain components (hi, Lily) that did nothing for me. Sorry about that.

The last few, predictably unsatisfying seasons of HIMYM have soured people, so let’s get one thing straight: the first four seasons (give or take a little), will go down as pantheon sitcom entries. You can’t tell me that Friends, or any other predecessor, ever had a better sustained stretch. Compared to most sitcoms, the characterization was light-years better, the jokes that much sharper, the situations realistic and entertaining, and the episodes didn’t quite go where you’d expect.

That last part is largely due to the show’s now-famous structure. The concept of playing with time and its narrator’s reliability soon became its defining feature, the organic imperfections of 20-year old memories dovetailing nicely with the growing popular trend of artists juggling their stories’ chronologies. It provided a jolt to the familiar trope of ‘20/30somethings hanging out discussing life,’ and on the best episodes, you were genuinely surprised at the end. That doesn’t happen often on sitcoms.

Of course, creators Carter Bays (on whom Ted is apparently modeled) and Craig Thomas always had (slightly) nobler ambitions than just laughs. The show was billed as ‘the ultimate TV romantic comedy,’ and that’s largely accurate, given Ted Mosby’s (Josh Radnor) earnest quest for relationship success. Armed with this purpose and serious undercurrent that most of their show’s forefathers lacked, Bays and Thomas hoped to have their cake and eat it, too—and, for a while, they succeeded.

It doesn’t really offend me that they couldn’t maintain their edge forever. Fanboys worship the seeming infallibility of short-lived shows like “Freaks & Geeks” and “Firefly,” and not to take anything away from those works, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to write one good season than four, or seven, or nine. As HIMYM hit the back stretch, it got worse in all the predictable ways that shows like this tend to get worse. The jokes got broader, telegraphed more blatantly. The characters’ actions started to diverge from their essences. The well of storylines ran dry, and the show never really incorporated guest stars effectively enough—a tactic that can invigorate an ensemble that we inevitably get tired of.

Neil Patrick Harris’s Barney Stinson came out of left field to anchor the show as its most memorable and adored character (and the easiest one to parody in later seasons). Despite CBS’s apparent insistence on making him broader, more misogynistic (yes, more), and resolutely less funny as the show aged, there’s no denying the extra energy he brought to the proceedings. At his best, Barney was the most rounded character on the show, driving forward many of the stories and producing natural conflicts with the other characters. If nothing else, he reeled in more male viewers to the show, but that wasn’t the extent of his value.

The episode where he finally confronts his father (John Lithgow) almost single-handedly redeemed season six. (“If you were going to be some lame suburban dad, why couldn’t you have been that for me?”) Easily the best actor of the group, NPH deserves the lion’s share of the credit for Barney’s status as one of the most memorable TV characters of the 2000s. (I just realized that NPH has no Emmy wins for this role…but Jon Cryer from “Two And A Half Men” does. No words.) Although the openly gay NPH’s womanizing provided some meta-laughs, he proved remarkably capable of handling just about any emotional tone. There’s really no reason we should feel sorry for him in, say, season seven when Robin turns him down for Kumar and he has to take those roses off the bed, but we do, and that’s all because of NPH.

That said, while Barney was the most rounded and amusing character on the show, nothing would have mattered if it weren’t for Ted. His romantic visions jumpstarted the show, which, refreshingly, offered us a male character you don’t see very often: a sincere romantic. Despite veering towards pretension and ego-centrism at times, Ted’s a genuine guy who’s neither pathetic nor creepy—a grown-up Seth Cohen, minus some comic books and Retaliatory Zingers. Whereas Barney took the show in its zanier directions, Ted was responsible for the saddest ones—of which there were a lot.

Of course, Ted’s psychological state was highly dependent upon the ratings of his show, but that’s not really the point. The point is that there are guys out there—whether 27 or 33 or 24—who want to marry someone they adore and doubt whether they ever will. There are guys out there who relate to the moment when Ted stood in his completed skyscraper—his career at its apex—and didn’t care because Robin was going to meet Barney and he was alone as ever.

Naturally, wrapping up HIMYM after a season or two would have spared Ted many of his most desolate moments. But because he started out so determined (and desperate), we bought it, and we liked him. Knowing, deep down, that the shows’ creators probably didn’t set out intending to make Ted suffer through 9 years of (intermittent) loneliness didn’t dull the impact of the well-executed sadder moments.

And it’s Ted’s genuine nature and unabashed love of love that explains why I’ll never accept Robin’s role on the show. This is the HIMYM aspect about which I feel the most strongly; quite simply, she should have been the mother, and it’s not even close. With the possible exception of version one of Victoria, nobody has made Ted as happy as Robin does. Despite their differences—which I’ll get to in a moment—their connection felt genuine and believable, and, most crucially, they brought out the best in each other. She minimized his self-centered tendencies, and he maximized her compassion and emotional openness.

Of course, there is that one part of her personality that clashes violently with Ted’s: Robin is resolutely un-romantic. She’s flighty, unsettled, and doesn’t want to be settled. However, that’s precisely why they had to end up together.

Quite frankly, guys like Ted, full of grand feelings of love, tend to fall for girls who (claim they) don’t want all that nonsense. Call it the Gatsby/Daisy phenomenon: these guys are so enraptured by the mythical concept of love that they’re drawn to the girls who force them to keep dwelling on it. The partners who tease, who feel like a challenge to rein in, who never quite capitulate—those are the ones who excite them the most, because they adore having the confusing relationship monopolize their thoughts. A lot of people want what they can’t have, but these types REALLY only like the girls who won’t give them what they claim so desperately to need.

That’s because, on some level, they’d rather subside on the fantastical notion of love in their head than accept someone who’d give them a real, and possibly flawed, version. As someone who’s been compared to Mr. Mosby, I know how this goes. For guys like Ted, nabbing somebody just as love-driven as them doesn’t feel as romantic as reaching for someone who isn’t.

As with anything, there are exceptions; but this is why no one questioned the idea of Mr. Gatsby buying a house and throwing astronomically exorbitant parties for someone whose most memorable description was that “her voice is full of money.” It’s why High Fidelity has resonated with so many guys even as its earnest protagonist floated amongst a series of girls who thought he was crazy for obsessing about love so much. It’s why the first plots of successful teen dramas “The OC” and “Gossip Girl” were driven by romantic guys striving for girls (Summer and Serena) defined, at least initially, by their superficiality and emotional unavailability. (The popular 500 Days of Summer also hinged on a less-pronounced version of this dynamic.)

As I mentioned, I share most of Ted’s embarrassing romanticism, and I’ve never once fallen for a girl who matched that. And all the girls I know who do feel similarly are with guys who don’t. Unfortunately, based on the show’s premiere this past Monday, they’re just going to make the mother a female version of Ted, a lazy (‘Oh, Ted has this weird quirk? Let’s make the mother do exactly the same thing!’), uninteresting, and fairly unrealistic take.

HIMYM set up the perfect situation—they just didn’t pay it off. They gave their romantic lead an un-romantic who SO brought out the best in him and vice versa…and then they went and did the whole “Aunt Robin” thing and ruined it for good. Unfortunately, as much as I do like this show, this fact just tarnishes too much of it.

In fact, the more you think about it, the more things begin to fall apart. For example, guys who just want to be friends with someone don’t pull off that Christmas-lights set-up Ted did in Robin’s apartment, or drop everything to help her find her locket. In real life, Barney would find Robin boring (her instability that drives Ted wild wouldn’t register as noteworthy for him), and she’d find him, well, rather repulsive. And, finally, if Robin was never going to be the endgame, why, why, why did Ted spend all of seasons 7 and 8 pining for her, convinced she was the one who’d gotten away? Why would they turn her into his Daisy if they knew he’d never get her?

I will offer this caveat: if HIMYM had forced Ted to realize that he was striving for a high school fantasy that didn’t exist, that he liked Robin partially for ancillary reasons that weren’t about her, that he needed to find something healthier, I might have accepted it. I probably wouldn’t have agreed with it, but it would have been more interesting. Instead, he essentially loses her because she wants Barney more, and that doesn’t make any sense.

All of these problems came to a head in a captivating and frustrating crucial scene in the cab, in 8-12 (“The Final Page, Part Two”). I’m sorry, but that scene, and that dynamic, represents a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of psychology and relationships. Former lovers can be friends, occasionally, but when someone feels the way Ted does about Robin, he doesn’t act the way he does in the cab.

It was such a heartfelt, well-played scene by Radnor that you almost forget that Ted is pushing the love of his life to run into the arms of a friend. When Ted kept pushing her to go, and she asked him why he cared so much, I assumed the punch-line was that he wanted her to say she didn’t want to go. And maybe that’s the implicit understanding–Radnor wasn’t even trying to hide his desire to end up with her–though that’s a pretty hollow victory, considering she runs off to Barney. But I think we all knew that the only thing truly keeping them apart was one overly-clever line that was probably written somewhere around the time Facebook was invented.

Regardless of the way it ended, that limo scene was Ted and Robin’s. For me, the show always will be, too.

**airali_glo** · 12-22-2013, 02:22 PM

But since Robin wasn't the mother it was obvious she wouldn't have ended with Ted, right? I'm just asking, I don't watch the show

My Smash co-mod is a huge Barney/Robyn shipper

FrellingTralk · 12-22-2013, 02:47 PM

I'm really surprised actually that Ted is still in love with Robin in the 6th and 7th season, cause yeah the first episode makes it clear that the kids know her as 'Aunt Robin' and she's not the Mom, so I figured that there wouldn't be much of a love story there beyond the first season

YoursToHold · 12-24-2013, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antisocial (View Post)

I'm really surprised actually that Ted is still in love with Robin in the 6th and 7th season, cause yeah the first episode makes it clear that the kids know her as 'Aunt Robin' and she's not the Mom, so I figured that there wouldn't be much of a love story there beyond the first season

Yeah, I liked T/R as a couple but always knew they wouldn't end up together.

Plus Ted/The Mother are perfect and they haven't even met yet.

**airali_glo** · 12-24-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

cause yeah the first episode makes it clear that the kids know her as 'Aunt Robin' and she's not the Mom, so I figured that there wouldn't be much of a love story there beyond the first season

Yeah, that's what I was saying. It feels weird to me hoping for an endgame when you already know how it ends - in this case with Robyn being the aunt and not the mother

FrellingTralk · 12-24-2013, 05:08 PM

Although I can't talk cause I hoped for a different endgame couple with Smallville, in spite of 70 years of canon

But yeah I do find Ted and Robin cute together from the first season, but I haven't been super-invested in them because I figured that in the second season they would realise they didn't work as a couple or something. It seems pretty depressing to spend 7/8 years on Ted pinning if the relationship has already been confirmed as not going to work out in the end

**PhoenixRising** · 12-24-2013, 05:45 PM

Merry Christmas everyone!

I'll get to more on the Ted/Robin thing later.

**airali_glo** · 12-25-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Although I can't talk cause I hoped for a different endgame couple with Smallville, in spite of 70 years of canon

So you wasn't a Clark/Lois fan?

Quote:

It seems pretty depressing to spend 7/8 years on Ted pinning if the relationship has already been confirmed as not going to work out in the end

It's very bad when you can't help but ship a couple/situation like that, when basically the writers say so. It's different from other kind of shows, even if it's not guaranteed to get your endgame anyway :lo:

Merry Christmas to you too

FrellingTralk · 12-26-2013, 05:56 AM

They didn't introduce Lois until the fourth season,and didn't make them romantic until the eight season, and I was already pretty invested in another couple by then

My ships don't get endgame very often anyway

Merry Christmas!

**airali_glo** · 12-27-2013, 07:32 AM

Quote:

They didn't introduce Lois until the fourth season,and didn't make them romantic until the eight season, and I was already pretty invested in another couple by then

A build-up indeed

I'm usually lucky with endgames, except for GG and Thalex

but I don't watch many shows, so I can't say, really


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