April7739

Pretty much my experience shipping Sawyer and Kate from Lost is what constitutes my worst shipping experience.

I knew I'd read that article before, Sarah, when I saw a piece of it in the Bellamy thread, but now I know FOR SURE, because I remember this stuff. Like you, there are parts of it that I agree with, and parts that . . . well, I don't necessarily disagree with the interpretation (if you're analyzing Bellamy's point of view), but rather with the way it's worded. Like you said, Bellamy made his own choices. Clarke isn't responsible for that. She can certainly influence his choices, just as he can influence hers, but they're both responsible for their own actions at the end of the day.

destroyer of worlds

That sucks, Paula. FF has not been great in the last few days. I'll send over the stuff tonight, slacked off last night.

Enjoy Amsterdam, Margaux! Agree with what you said, will properly respond when I'm not rushing.

I totally agree about how it's worded as well, April. I'm not for the "blaming Clarke" tone of the article but I agree with the reasoning that the writer was trying to convey in that article. And now, I'm wondering if I've been a noob and completely blanked out if we discussed that article in here because I usually remember if we have. But I am still a bit jetlaggy and wonky these days so I might have forgotten if we have?

April7739

I think you may have dropped it off once before, Sarah. Yes, let's just blame the jet lag.

Alexa

thats because you picked the very obvious wrong side.



i kid, i kid... sorta

destroyer of worlds

Yup, let's do that.

I'll post GIFsets tomorrow.

CanIcallYouKate

Just a quick fly by again

Can't wait to have more time again for posting.
Rushing to get everything finished and headed for the airport in a few minutes.

Getting a bit nervous about my interview tomorrow

now that's just mean Alexa (and I agree )

Looking forward to the gifsets Sarah!

Steph26

Good luck Kate!

destroyer of worlds

HDU ... Kate/Sawyer is the right side.

Best of luck with the interview, Kate! I'm sure you'll do amazing.

I'm so tired and to top it off, I'm feeling iffy and like I'm going to fall sick. It seems to be in the air now.

GIFset tonight once I'm home from dinner and have my laptop.

April7739

Well, if you get sick, welcome to the club, Sarah! I'm awful right now.

After my disaster shipping Skate, I vowed to never JUST watch a show for a ship again. Because after a while, I really was just watching Lost for them.

I might try to post some more arts tomorrow. I just get in Bellarke art moods.

destroyer of worlds

Aww, that sucks. Was hoping that you'll be feeling better by now.

Yay for arts! I'm having BC withdrawals again.

I get watching a show (or clips) mainly for a ship. That was the only reason why I endured GG for more than I should have ... Dan/Blair.

Damocles

Oooh good luck Kate!

April7739

I also think I need to get lost in a new Bellarke fanfic. Either that or reread Survivor's Guilt, like I've been saying I'm going to.

destroyer of worlds

I'm still going through the posts I missed during my trip so here, have a pretty Bellarke Christmas art (courtesy of someone else ) :



April, you'll probably need to break out the Blanche GIF again then.

Where are we with the survivor again?

AnaMack

Hey, guys, busy week here (yes, procrastination towards doing college work takes a lot of time). I'll later Sarah it up with the latest comments. I'm passing by because of this:
The Rosy — Ramblings on Polis and 3A

WARNINGS: it's anti-clexa, so the multishippers here can just ignore the link, but Becks once asked why people thought the ship was abusive somehow and it pretty much gives one point of view on someone who does see it this way. The reason I'm posting it is because just this week I was able to look at arguments against a ship of mine and say "hey, I get your point. I don't agree, but I get where you see the problem and I do reckon it is a problem from this perspective, which is not mine", so I decided on posting the link because Becks once wondered and this is an actual valid view on it, rather than just an amount of uneducated hateful words towards the ship.

Now, I'm posting the link here because of Paula and the other girls that, like me, did not like Clarke's 3A persona. I'm not posting it on the Clarke thread because the possibility of shippers being offended or of a less polite argument taking place is bigger when on a thread where half the people ship a ship that's seen as problematic on the text. Here, there's a lesser possibility of people feeling uncomfortable about it, that is.

I considered DMing this to April, but I now see there are more people on this thread who could be interested on it.

This is a text based on depicting Clarke's 3A ooc-ness with an anti-clexa bias that's actually well argumented and not based on pure hatred, but on the person's personal experience. It's not offensive in any way, it purely portrays someone's perspective on what happened and her twist on how she perceives 3A Clarke. We've discussed 3A Clarke a lot around here, as well as the Bellamy case, so I hope it's alright to share it here. Only the link, however, so that those who don't feel comfortable with reading a text that goes against their ship don't have to.

That being said, I thought of either discussing this under spoiler tags or through DMs, whatever you guys feel like. The reasons why I'm posting it on this thread are above. Also, it leads to a talk that is about Bellarke:
To which extent was Bellamy cuffing Clarke abusive and to which it was "for a greater good", and is there a difference between his 3x05 actions and Lexas 3x02 choices? (this can be discussed under spoiler tags, if it's allowed)

How do you perceive the cuffing from a moral point of view? We've discussed this a lot under the perspective of Bellamy's reasoning behind it, but, fundamentally, how do you guys perceive it?

ETA

The text ultimately talks about how Clarke isn't OOC on 3A, but just under the influence of a series of factors. While the text will focus on what is, likely to the poster, one of the factors, it relates to our view of bellarke in a way, that of their co-dependency. It's been talked about how Bellamy acted the way he did because of the influence of past episodes on him. This text comes with the poster's acception that Clarke wasn't as much ooc as she was influenced by fear (an external fear, related to what had previously happened). Now, them being apart this season coincided with them making poor choices. It's not that they can't live without each other, it's that their influence on each other is stronger than the influence of their fears. Clarke can work better when with Bellamy because he makes her feel safe. He makes her less scared. Bellamy makes better choices when under the influence of Clarkes words because she makes him believe in himself.

A few hours ago I was reading a book and suddenly a passage of it really bothered me. It went on and on about how the character felt so vulnerable without the other character and that she couldn't live without him and yadda yadda. This kind of love sounded beautiful to me when I was a teenager, but now it just sounds plainly sick. And then I wondered, why, then, don't I feel sick at the notion that Clarke couldn't bear to lose Bellamy. It comes down to what we've talked about so many times: they need each other, but they work on their own. Why didn't they work well on their own through season 2 (TonDC) or 3 (Pike, Clarke's absency and numbness), though? Because of fear. They're more vulnerable to their demons when alone. Clarke was numb through 3A because she was to afraid to move. She wanted to escape herself at anyhow. Hey, maybe the reason she took in every word of Bellamy's 3x05 rant then brushed off any resentment right away was because Bellamy aknowledging she was making a mistake made her feel less guilty. Maybe him calling her out on her **** was what she needed and wanted. Maybe she couldn't bare to stay in camp jaha because she couldn't deal with people thanking her for a mass murder. Not just because them being alive reminded her of what she did, but also because of how they would perceive what she's done as something ultimately positive. She couldn't deal with that guilt. Bellamy called her out on her guilt and maybe, ironically, it made her feel better. They have their fears and guilt together or apart, but, when together, they work their **** out just the way they need it to be dealt with. They could live without each other, but it could be a lot harder. Not because of unexplainable passion or out of this world epic love, but because they are the ones who best understand each other and, without that understanding, they are alone. Maybe that's what soulmates are. Two people who truly understand each other like that. It's when you feel at home because that person is next to you and talking to you, because you know you will be understood and that you won't have to be anything other than what you truly are. So as I felt disgusted by unexplainable love that kept the characters from breathing properly at the thought of losing each other, I see the idea of Clarke giving her life for Bellamy as beautiful, because it's not abstract. It's not based on over romantic concepts. It's based on how alone and helpless she would feel without that one person who understands her, that one person that calls her out when she needs it to happen, but that gives her comfort when she needs it, too, isn't that why we love 3x05? Maybe the argument itself is exactly what classifies them as good for each other, and maybe, just maybe, what ultimately proves them soulmates.

So whenever you cringe at the notion that Clarke and Bellamy would depend on each other to work properly or even to exist and question whether or not the scenes could be read as this, remind yourselves of this, of how they would work fine alone were they not under the influence of s2's events still and of how, whenever they do depend on each other, it's because Clarke and Bellamy understand each others fears like no one and are the best people to talk each other through them. Not because they are weak apart, but because they make each other stronger than they already are.

Possible title? "They aren't weak apart, but they make each other stronger."

Damocles

Thanks for that link Ana, and for the disclaimer that came along with it.

I've always had issue with the word "abusive" being thrown around to describe both Clexa and Bellarke, because I personally never saw abuse there, in either of those relationships. Does that mean it's not there? No. I mean, I've been wrong before (shocker). But it's not something that crossed my mind when seeing either of these relationships unfold on screen. I think Lexa had a way with words and yes to an extent she shaped Clarke's thoughts and made her feel a certain way/think a certain way, yadda yadda yadda but I don't know that she abused her power? Correct me if I'm wrong, though. I always thought she was speaking from a place of caring. If Clarke really really wanted to leave, she would have. She was completely broken still while in Polis though and extremely vulnerable IMO, and not up to her full decision-making capacity I'm not discrediting what happened between her and Lexa at all, but I am still not a fan of her 3A storyline/the writing to an extent.

I mean of course as a Bellarke shipper I wanted to see her and Bellamy back together, but Bellamy was pissing me off and so was she - I just wasn't the hugest fan of much in 3A So for all I cared they could both piss off for a bit

Do I see Bellamy handcuffing her as abuse? I mean yeah, it was a form of control and he was holding her there against her will, and yes he thought he was doing it for her own good (and let's not forget Bellamy's mental state as well)...should he have done it? Of course not. Is that an abusive relationship? Not in my opinion. Clarke also sent him to potentially die in Mount Weather and not only did he get his arse burned, he lost his cool hat. Neither of them would ever hurt eachother on purpose, nor would they abuse eachother on purpose (see: Octavia smacking Bellamy around). If they did, I'd eat my hat.

I totally agree with all this.