The only time he was forced to turn it off was when Klaus compelled him to. Every other time was his choice

I am not saying Stefan didn't have a choice in turning his humanity off in some of those cases, but he was put in between a rock and a hard place every single time. He didn't just willingly turn off his humanity because he wanted to. You are simplifying Stefan's reasons for going ripper far too much, while giving Katherine a whole lot of excuses when she is just as culpable of her actions, and imo it's worse in her case because she doesn't seem to care or want redemption, maybe at one point she did, but her choices in the finale prove that she absolutely wasn't seeking redemption.

My point is that if the brothers deserve redemption, so does she. She got sucked in hell while they both found peace.Absurd
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I get that, but the brothers both want it. I am not so sure that Katherine does. I am not even saying that the brothers deserve redemption, but in this case the brothers were actually trying to achieve redemption, when all Katherine was trying to do is destroy Mystic Falls and kill everyone in it.

Out of revenge if I'm not wrong

You aren't wrong, but I still don't see how that mean she deserves redemption. Katherine doesn't want it, she is quite happy continuing to wreak havoc on those she blames for her hardships.. but the Salvatore's aren't to blame for what happened to Katherine.

Anyway, this is the last post I will say on it. I am not trying to change your mind or even convince you that the brother's deserve redemption.. I really was just interested in why you thought Katherine deserved redemption over them. I appreciate you taking the time to let me know your thoughts :)

They're not heroes. These guys are monsters and have done monstrous things in the name of saving people, but it was about their own selfish need for them and not the greater good. However, Stefan and Damon were clearly trying to be better. Damon in s8 mostly. Stefan struggling with doing to right thing and following a moral code for the entire series. Katherine was always about protecting herself and her own self interests. The only real difference between them all was that Damon and Stefan had other people they were willing to die for. Katherine was only about herself.

For me both brothers are unredeemable

Question of the hour, is anything ever St Stefan's fault? It's not like he has a brain of his own, things just happen to mah boi.

P.S Caroline is still alive and well and wet dreamin about Claus, until he thanks her in person ofc. :eyebrows:

Hello evyerbody,
I just watched the finale, I havent seen the show in about 3 years, I knew about Stefans death because of all the social media.
I have to say i was expecting a better ending, even with Stefan´s death, I was always a Delena fan so I was expecting this intense, emotional and loving reunion, i did not get that at all.
I did cry when Stefan says goodbye, i didnt get how he shows up to Elena, while she´s sleeping? so his soul meets with her?
All the alter life was very confusing to me, since the first seasons of this show was not about this, then again the last four seasons were a mess in my opinion, thats why i stopped watching, didnt even know Caroline had children.
I guess I liked that Damon and Elena ended up together but was expecting more scenes with them and we did not get that at all.
Liked to see Jeremy was there, even though a glipmpse of him.
So Bonni will spend her life seeing the ghost of Enzo? did not like that, i dont think that is fair, even though shes trying to live her life at the fullest.
I dont know, the ending left me with this feeling of confusion and emptiness about a show that started like a great show but their characters had changed too much or their stories.

I don't think she sees it :confused: I think she probably sense his presence, but not see or hear him for real, or she would have looked him in his eyes while he caressed her, but she didn't, I think she just had a feeling he was there :shrug: :look:

Yes I got the impression that she moved on enough to let him go and to live her life, but she knows he's always there watching out for her and she feels his presence and love.

oh ok, i get it now.

I don't know exactly what it is literally, but the high school where Stefan sees Elena is some kind of limbo before passing on and he was able to see Elena because she's in a coma, in a kind of spiritual limbo, even though she is not actually dead. Then when Stefan went outside he passed on into "peace" which is like Heaven and saw Lexi and the car he destroyed.

Haha great description! I too lost interest in the show halfway through (I made it through season 4 and popped in from time to time on the following seasons and just got more annoyed because I did not understand what in the heck was going on--it all seemed way too complicated and unusual for these characters. I didn't start watching regularly again until from the end of season 7 until now. I'd heard what happened in the meantime and it all just sounded so crazy and ooc. I didn't realize how much of Season 7 I missed, until recently I began watching it all the way through. I was surprised to see that I'm actually liking it more than I thought, and it is making more sense, but you are right, the plots just got so complicated.

I really think that the main problem with the finale is that it was just too short. I think they covered the bases so to speak but didn't allow much time for the audience to reflect or in the case of Damon and Elena--enjoy their reunion. It was just too much to take in at once, and easy to misinterpret. I can't help but once more compare it to Lost's finale, which initially annoyed me because I misinterpreted what was going on!

Just finished my rewatch of the entire series!!! Its taken a few years but I absolutely loved and enjoyed it. Someday I will do it again too. :lol:

Many thoughts on the finale, again. But not quite as long as last time. I will say this, I still cried a LOT! I didnt think I was going to this time around but man, I love these characters and this show a lot and the finale was strong imo. One of my favorite TVD episodes.

Matt getting that family scene was pretty sweet considering Vicki died so early in the season. I loved too that he became a sheriff and we got to see Tyler and Vicki at the very end.

I did enjoy seeing Katherine and Nina again of course. There was a bit too much of her for my taste in the episode but it was still fun to bring it back to her since she was the initial series villain. Sucks she had to take the guys out with her. I wish instead she had helped them destroy hell or something. (That wig Oh Chile was awful)

Bonnie was phenomenal in the episode. No last DB scene which made me sort of sad, but I was glad that she was able to go off and travel at the end and do something for herself. Her saving everyone was so amazing and all the witches standing behind her was just incredible. Loved that scene. I also love that she was able to bring Elena back. I wish that scene had gotten a bit more focus because I still dont really get it. They could have explained it better (maybe her heart stopped when she saved the town, or maybe when Kai was her and she was torturing him she could have made a deal to break the Elena spell and then she'd set him free or something to that sort. Bonnie could have been "working" on it since then.

Alaric was still pushy and annoying in the episode but I get it, he has childen to look after now and I loved that he and Caroline opened up the school. Especially because now I watch Legacies so that was fun and I also really enjoyed seeing Jo watch them all. :love: The definite theme of the episode was family.

Caroline was so amazing the entire episode. Loved her moment with Damon after Stefan had died. That was a sweet scene. I loved her reunion with Elena. I also loved her helping with he school and feeling Liz there again. Also seeing Jeremy! That was sweet. I love that Caroline will be the last one standing among them all. :love: She started out so weak and insecure so who would have thought. The little donation from Klaus was super adorable though knowing how Originals ends it does make me a bit sad.

Stefan and Caroline hurt my heart. I LOVED the delete scene of them after the wedding, they seemed so happy. It absolutely sucks he died right after they got married! But i appreciated their final scene in the school, where she first saw him. I also loved the phonecall and later when Stefan delivered the message to her that he would always love her. Breaks my heart and I cried SO MUCH but I am so happy that they had that. That is still endgame to me.

I cannot believe that Stefan sacrificed himself but its 100% who he is and this story started with him coming to Mystic Falls so I find it fitting it ends with his death, as much as I hate it. i LOVED the last S/D scenes and how neither wanted to sacrifice themselves for one another. Damon "compelling" Stefan to leave was heartbreaking and I was shocked to find out it didnt work. Stefan coming back and taking the fall, ugh... kills me every time. But what made the scene more bearable was when he left the school and SAW LEXI AGAIN! One of my favorite parts of the whole finale for sure. I also loved the scene in the school with Elena of course and how they got their goodbye scene. That was sweet and i loved how they bumped into one another like in the pilot. The Fray Song choice was SO GREAT. But I wish they had used it instead for the final song of the night. Also I have to say, I dont think Damon is the better man, but I think what Stefan meant and how he explained it was that he was the better man FOR ELENA and he meant the HUMAN Damon, the one that he knew when they were kids before he had turned him. In a way Stefan's death is sort of a reaction to that first decision he ever made. I think it makes sense. Plus Stefan has a hard time living with his guilt where as Damon finds it easier to let it go, so it worked.

So happy to see Elena again. I wish she had been in the episode a bit more. Had Katherine "knocked her out" or whatever, I think that would have made more sense because then she could have just woken up later on, but still, loved having her there. The scenes with Bonnie were amazing! When her and Damon saw each other :thud: I was so happy. I am so so so happy they got their ending and that it worked out because Damon has been hoping and praying for it for the last 2 seasons. So amazing to see them back together. I adore the ending moments with her writing in the journal. The "hold on" song was beautiful. I loved her in the graveyard and seeing the crow again and them walking off together, then seeing the ring and knowing they got married. That was great.

The ending montage of scenes made me SO HAPPY. I was so excited to see Jon and Jenna again and Elena got to be with her parents and then to see Damon show up at Stefan's and the "hello brother" ugh that made my heart so happy. Someday all these guys will be reunited and it's so sweet to see! :love:

I love this show so much, despite all its flaws. This rewatch was fun!