[Ropetuned]

What is the red?

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by Ropetuned (View Post) What is the red?

Density of Fringe Events.

[FoxPhile]

Michiganders will be upset to know that the UP is in Canada.

[Ironhorse25]

Things That Make You Go Hmmmm....

In this universe, eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished on May 30, 2005, near the end of an American high school graduation trip to Aruba in the Caribbean. Her disappearance resulted in a media sensation and remains unsolved.

In the alternate universe, there's a good chance eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway would have never vanished on May 30, 2005, near the end of an American high school graduation trip, for Aruba is a war-torn country 'over there', prompting Natalie to have never travelled there to being with.

[FoxPhile]

Interesting. So there's a good chance she went somewhere else on that trip and returned home safely, graduated and went on to live a normal life.

[Ironhorse25]

Correct.

[FoxPhile]

I do wonder how "correcting" the universes are. If Natalee lives in the alternate universe, and goes on to have children, who also have children and so on - that's a lot of potential people to significantly affect the timeline. Based on what we've seen, while there are some interesting differences, for the most part the two universes are very similar. If these sorts of changes are not somehow corrected, one would expect a lot more divergence. Which leads me to believe that when someone lives in one universe and not in another, then they must either die in some other way - not long after their death in the alternate universe - or else they have no children and never do anything of significance.

[Ironhorse25]

The fact that at least 2,606 people didn't die in the Twin Towers kinda negates your theory. That's a lot of people that went on to have children, who will also have children and so on - that's a lot of people that has and will significantly affect the timeline.

And look at JFK. He has had a very successful political career 'over there'.

[Ropetuned]

Kinda makes you what’s tipping the fate. Would someone like Mark David Chapman (I hate how he shares my first and middle name) kill someone else if perhaps John Lennon was somewhere else that infamous day or would he even be a killer at all

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) Michiganders will be upset to know that the UP is in Canada.

I certainly wouldn’t!

[FoxPhile]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse25 (View Post) The fact that at least 2,606 people didn't die in the Twin Towers kinda negates your theory. That's a lot of people that went on to have children, who will also have children and so on - that's a lot of people that has and will significantly affect the timeline. And look at JFK. He has had a very successful political career 'over there'.

What I'm saying is, does something *else* happen to these people that diminishes or eliminates their affect on the timeline? Do they die in some other way, or do their children die, or maybe they don't have any children. Some number of them probably simply don't do anything major.

As far as JFK is concerned, he had two children in this universe before he died, so his children are not an issue. Just because he lived, doesn't mean he did anything major after that point in his life. Yes, he was a successful politician, but that doesn't mean he had any significant impact on the world.

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) What I'm saying is, does something *else* happen to these people that diminishes or eliminates their affect on the timeline? Do they die in some other way, or do their children die, or maybe they don't have any children. Some number of them probably simply don't do anything major. As far as JFK is concerned, he had two children in this universe before he died, so his children are not an issue. Just because he lived, doesn't mean he did anything major after that point in his life. Yes, he was a successful politician, but that doesn't mean he had any significant impact on the world.

The people in the towers went on with whatever plans they had for the future (big or small). Some may have died later on from other causes.

We do know that JFK most likely was responsible for averting a Vietnam War and launching an earlier start to the space program.

We also know that he went on to become UN Ambassador and was chosen to head up a new Department of Ecology under the Obama administration.

Originally Posted by Ropetuned (View Post) Kinda makes you what’s tipping the fate. Would someone like Mark David Chapman (I hate how he shares my first and middle name) kill someone else if perhaps John Lennon was somewhere else that infamous day or would he even be a killer at all

Both scenarios were possible.

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) As far as JFK is concerned, he had two children in this universe before he died, so his children are not an issue.

Actually, JFK and Jackie O had four children – Caroline, John Jr, Patrick and Arabella.

Following a miscarriage in 1955, Jackie gave birth to a stillborn baby girl in 1956.

They named the baby Arabella.

In 1963, months before JFK’s assassination, the couple had son Patrick.

Patrick died aged two days old due to complications from birth.

John Jr. died in 1999 along with wife, Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy, and sister-in-law, Lauren Bessette, when the small plane he was piloting crashed en route to Martha's Vineyard.

Caroline is the only surviving child of the couple.

What if all his children are also still alive in the alternate universe?

[FoxPhile]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse25 (View Post) What if all his children are also still alive in the alternate universe?

That would certainly be interesting, but I still think that history in both universes must somehow self correct for the variances. Otherwise after centuries there simply would be very few recognizable doppelgangers.

[Ironhorse25]

Originally Posted by FoxPhile (View Post) That would certainly be interesting, but I still think that history in both universes must somehow self correct for the variances. Otherwise after centuries there simply would be very few recognizable doppelgangers.

There are 7.8 billion people in the world as of 2020. Probably about the same in the alternate universe.

Numerous major changes in the timelines would not upset the applecart.

There would be plenty of room for doppelgängers.

Over the centuries, more would have stayed the same, than been altered, anyway.

[Ironhorse25]

A Tale of Two Charlies

Thanks to the alternate universe, the death of our Charlie created more opportunities for his alternate self in S3. Alternate Charlie had a sizable scar on his face and evidently endured the same death-by-larvae ordeal as his doppelgänger. Since Walter was never part of the Fringe team in the alternate universe, he wasn't on hand to halt Charlie's condition, but because the alternate universe's technology is more advanced, alternate Charlie was able to control the larvae infestation through regular injections instead.

Although alternate Charlie doesn't appear in S4, alternate Lincoln and Fauxlivia disclose in S4-EP2 "One Night in October," that he married Mona Foster, the bug specialist he met as a result of the larvae in his blood. They met again as he worked on a new Fringe case in S3-EP13 "Immortality".



In S4, the newlyweds are holidaying abroad.

The final chapter of alternate Charlie's story is significant for several reasons. Firstly, it provides a much happier ending for a popular character who originally met a very grisly end. Many Fringe fans (including myself) felt that Charlie had more to offer the series and were disappointed that he was offed by a shapeshifter so early. The reveal also shows another divergence between the two Charlies. In the main world, the character was happily married to a woman named Sonia, who makes a brief appearance in S1-EP16 "Unleashed" (and was played by Acevedo's actual wife Kiersten Warren).



For whatever reason, this didn't happen in the alternate universe, with Charlie instead marrying Mona at a later point in his life.

Potentially, Walter might've been the difference-maker in preventing Charlie and Mona meeting in our universe. In "Immortality," Mona states that she was responsible for treating alternate Charlie after his initial sting. Perhaps if Walter hadn't been on hand to save the day, our Mona may have been called in to assist Charlie's recovery.

Sonia Francis may have Walter to thank for helping her husband avoid a potential love rival, but would hooking up with Mona Foster instead of Sonia "over here" altered the timeline enough to have our Charlie not killed and dupicated by a shapeshifter?