Skins - 1x01 [Tony] Discussion Thread - Page 4

Finnegan · 12-17-2011, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisztomania (View Post)

i'm not entirely sure about JB reliving it through tony because he specifically said he was a sid but that he knew a tony.

For sure, Nia. I think that comes across pretty clearly in Skins s1 & s2, There is no explicit narrator in Skins, the "point of view" is ostensibly impersonal omniscience. But the "point of view" implied by the content of the show is clearly that of someone fascinated by and deeply empathetic to Tony, not that of Tony himself. (That may not be true for some particular episodes, e.g., for the dream episode, s2e6, but I think it is true for the "first-gen" drama as a whole.)

But then, a sidekick typically works better than the protagonist as the POV character for telling the story of a complex, unusual protagonist.

Any thoughts on the question I've asked on the "Tony" thread, here, about symbolism in Tony's bed cover? That must be something Skins fans have discussed extensively, I should imagine.

Maybe that's even something out of which one could make a cute short fan-fic -- "How Tony Got His Bed Cover." I'm seeing a guy taken to a mall to get him a birthday present. By a girl who's bright enough to see through his bulls**t. A girl who's empathetic enough to see what he could and should become. A girl with an ironic sense of humor that they both share. A who's a close friend of his girlfriend and is tired of his treating her like crap.

lisztomania · 12-18-2011, 09:57 AM

i haven't really seen a particular symbolism in his sheets. i always thought it's just a big part of tony's personality.. his cheeky need to offend. but it is interesting now that you mentioned tony's possibly duality.. him having his self and his feminine self.. seeing as the sheets has a male and female figure. and maybe effy "inheriting" that sheets is basically telling us that they're extending the story through effy - who is basically the female version of tony.

Finnegan · 01-18-2012, 10:00 PM

It still seems true, as I posted previously on this thread, that the only use of the phrase, Field of Dreams, in a script of Dawson's Creek, is the one from season 2, episode 6, "All Nighter," that I cited a few posts back on this thread. It's not at all like the Tony's phrase, "this little field of dreams we're dancing in," that Jal tells Crhis is a quote from Dawson's Creek. Jal is misleading Chris, and Tony, in failing to correct her, plays along.

However, I've found some new and interesting information:

There is an allusion to the famous, "If you build it they will come" line from Field of Dreams in season 3, episode 1, of DC, titled, "Like a Virgin." Here's the dialogue, sourced here or here:

Quote:

Pacey: We'll throw a party. Here. Tonight.

Eve: It's genius! You'll make the cash you need in two hours tops!

Dawson: It's insane! I will not turn my house into a strip club! No way!

Pacey: Teenage boys will come, Dawson. They'll come for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up in your driveway, not knowing for sure why they're doing it, and arrive at your door, innocent as children. "Of course, we won't mind if you look around," you'll say. "It's only twenty dollars per person." And they'll pass over money without even looking at it. For it is money they have and breasts they lack. No, Dawson. Teenage boys will come. They will most definitely come.

The IMDB page for DC 3/1 actually identifies that as an allusion to Field of Dreams. That's how I found it; unlike Jamie Brittain, I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of teen drama. And here's the context:

Quote:

Dawson's Creek
Episode 301
Like a Virgin
Original Airdate: September 29, 1999

In this episode: On the way home from his summer internship in Philadelphia, Dawson has an encounter with an alluring and sexy young woman (Eve). He falls asleep after baring his soul to her, and when he wakes she is gone. ... Dawson desperately seeks to avoid Joey, who has also changed the summer - she wants Dawson back. Eve's agenda soon becomes clear - to change Dawson's life by ending his virginity. Her efforts to do this in an unlikely place results in Dawson and Eve crashing his father's prized antique motorboat. Pacey comes up with a wild plan to throw a party complete with strippers, courtesy of Eve, to earn the money to fix the boat, but the boisterous event spirals out of control in more ways than might be expected, resulting in even more changes for our friends.

So ... part of what Elsley and Brittain seem to be doing with this misquoting allusion is acknowledging their debt to DC 3/1 as a source of the basic story-line for Skins 1/1, namely, cash-making at a party as part of a scheme to enable a guy to lose his virginity -- but the guy turns down the opportunity to lose his virginity.

This allusion to Field of Dreams, and its misattribution to DC, is also Jal and Tony messing with Chris's head, and the writers messing with our heads, and it's an ironic comment about realism and idealism in drama -- but it's even more of an acknowledgment of Skins' debt to DC than I had understood. Skins starts off with a very deep bow to Dawson's Creek.

lisztomania · 01-29-2012, 04:43 AM

this is interesting because it's also tying up to tony's S2 episode where he ahd to "lose his virginity" again, in a way, to beth.

Finnegan · 01-29-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisztomania (View Post)

this is interesting because it's also tying up to tony's S2 episode where he ahd to "lose his virginity" again, in a way, to beth.

Nia,

"Beth"? Like short for "Elizabeth?" Tony's dream girl in Skins 2/6 is never called by a name in the episode, is she? So where does the name "Beth" come from, the credits?

Only after focusing on the final episodes of series 4, where Foster keeps calling Effy by her full name, Elizabeth, until she starts insisting that Cook call her that, too, do I catch what that underscores. I mean, we've both been saying that the dream girl seems to be a stand-in for Effy (presumably because sibling sex scenes are where even Jamie Brittain feels obliged to draw the line), but I didn't realize that the dream girl and Tony's sister even have the same name.

Where in Skins is Effy first called "Elizabeth?" Probably Skins 3/1, right, when we first see her in school? Or does she tell Josh Stark her first name when she meets him in series 1? Her parents don't call her that in Skins 1/1 do they?

I really wish there were some searchable transcripts of Skins online. Having to rewatch videos to answer simple textual questions like this sucks. But I can't find any. Are there any?

(I should probably post this on the Skins 2/6 episode discussion thread, but I think I'm already the last poster on that thread, and your board rules don't allow two consecutive posts by the same poster. Sorry.)

Anyhow, yes, you're right, Tony is of course emotionally virginal until Skins 2/6. Sid actually loses his emotional virginity before Tony does. More of the cute irony.

lisztomania · 01-30-2012, 12:06 AM

yes, i believe she introduced herself as "beth" somewhere in the episode and she's def credited as beth in the titles and the writers themselves have referred to her as "beth". and this is actually one of the biggest clues about her being another stand-in for effy. they share the same name.

i've forgotten when effy was first called elizabeth tho.

Finnegan · 02-02-2012, 12:32 AM

Question:

In the last episode of series 1, when they're all opening their A-Level exam results around a campfire, and everyone is congratulating Tony on his three A's and a B, Tony replies: "If anyone give me a baa-baa-[frig*]-sheep I'm gonna kill 'im."

* Original word can't be posted on FanForum

To what does "baa-baa-[frig*]-sheep" refer?

I've searched online for both that term (nothing comes up except this quote from Skins) and for "baa-baa-black-sheep" (the nursery rhyme) and "congratulations" or "A-level" (which also seems to yield nothing that answers my question).

Is this some kind of reference to a diploma, i.e., a sheepskin?

(I would post this on the episode discussion thread for the last episode of series 1, but, sadly, I'm the last poster on that thread, and this board's rules prohibit two consecutive posts by the same poster on the same thread.)