Crossbow

Sorry for the double post - my edits have been coming out wrong. The changes don't take, and then I can't get back into the thread.

Anyway, found this quiz:
What's your grammar aptitude?
I scored "grammar fuhrer." They have no idea - I found mistakes even in the "correct" answers on the quiz. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] It said "If only you would use yor powers for good instead of evil." Yeah, right - where's the fun in that?

Silversun

I agree with Age-a-licious about continuity. I guess that's one of the facets of characterisation? Not only do you have to write in a way that your characters, well, are in character; they also have to stay in character.

I can't agree more. I think writing is something to be respected, whether you're writing professionally or otherwise. It is obvious that some fanfic writers see fanfic writing as a 'journal' of sorts, where they could just let go and basically babble about their favourite couple or whatnot on a particular fandom; and I don't really mind that. What I do mind, however, is if they obviously think their fic is fantastic, demand feedback, threaten to stop writing if they don't get it, and react badly to constructive comments. That's when you get to a point where you're being disrespectful to writing itself.

So I guess what I'm saying is, it's the writers who don't take the time to correct their fics from basic spelling/grammar issues, yet expect a wide reader base, that get to me. That's why I tend to avoid ff.net with its review structure.

I got grammar Fuhrer too!
Your punishment is being the bane of every other person's existence, because you're constantly contradicting stupidity. Everyone will be gunning for you. Your dreams of a master race of spellers and grammarians frighten the masses.
How very accurate! [img]smilies/evil_laugh.gif[/img]

Crossbow

[img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] It was accurate for me too.

I, too, have no objection to the really badly-written journal-type if it's only for your own or your friends entertainment - but to subject the public at large to it just seems ... rude.

Sidewalk Doctor

First of all, I'm new here, so I'd just like to say hi. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Awesome thread idea. A lot of you said the exact same things I've been thinking. I am a published writer and write fanfic just for fun, but I seem to be stuck in an endless search for great fics to read. I'm sure they're out there, but I'll be damned if I can find them. I tend to prefer novels over short stories, and I disagree that length is necessarily bad... a well-written fanfic novel can become addictive, although I agree that a poorly-written one surpasses any medieval torture device.

On a related note, I tend to avoid FF.net simply b/c it's so hard to find that one gem amidst all the crap. Makes me feel bad that the good writers don't get enough recognition, but what can I do? I thought of starting a site where experienced writers could recommend all their fave fics in a variety of 'ships and fandoms... or does a site like that already exist? If it does, by all means, share!

I'm beginning to feel that to a certain extent, the ability to write well is one of those either-you-have-it-or-you-don't type things. It boggles my mind how some novice writers have no perception of the most obvious things about writing... like basic plot structure, for example. You know, rising action, falling action, climax, denouement... I've read so many fics that ramble on and on and have no cohesive plot... just a bunch of stuff that keeps happening. I say if you can start in the middle and it still makes sense, there's something wrong. I also say never start a story without knowing how it will end. Never!! I always make an outline, however rough, of where I'm going with it.

Well, I've rambled on long enough, and I gotta get going. Hope I didn't bore you too bad. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Silversun

That sounds like a fantastic idea. I haven't really seen a site that's exclusively devoted to that. I have, however, found recommendation pages on my favourite authors' sites very useful for finding good fics to read.

This is an interesting topic, and currently I'm not sure where I stand on it. I believe the ability to write well is definitely a mixture of natural talent, practice, and the amount of reading you do; but in what proportions? I personally think it might have something to do with the amount of books you read when you were growing up, so that the appreciation of certain styles and structure simply sneaks into your psyche and stays there, ready to be called into service when you start writing. What do you guys think? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Mr. Impatient

Okay, there is just way too much here in these seven pages for me to go through and point out everything with which I agree or disagree.

I have to say, though, that most of the things I have seen have been stated as either do or do not, with no exception. It seems as though each person's personal preferences are the only things that they care about. That is not really going to help people who come to a thread looking for honest advice.

I can't believe how many contradictory posts there are in this thread, with each one reading as if it is the absolute, definitive stance on a particular issue.

It is all well and good to have your opinion (and to share that opinion), but when the wording you use implies that the things you like are the only things that make a fanfic work well, then it only causes more problems for those who may come here looking to get avice on how to better their writing.

I agree with a lot of the things that have been stated on this thread, but I also want to make sure it is clearly stated that there are exceptions to every "rule" regarding fanfic.

As a writer, it is often vital to the story to include an original character. After all, every show does it quite frequently. What would Buffy, Xander, Willow, and Giles do if there were no other characters? I think the important thing to remember about original characters is that you should make sure that they are not the "focus" of the fic. Creating original characters, and making them important to the actual plot, instead of just having them around to give your main character a new person with whom to become sexually active is a lot more challenging than trying to make all of the established characters conform to what you want to have happen in a fic. Also, original characters can be used to link other characters and events in crossover fiction.

Characterization is good, but there is also such a thing as "too much characterization." If a writer turns a character into a stereotype, then they get as much criticism as (if not more than) they would have gotten for making them act out of character. No one wants to see an evil character burst into songs about bunnies while twirling through a meadow full of cartoon animals. However, it is also important to remember that even the most evil characters have to care about something. Otherwise, why would they bother with any of their evil deeds?

For some, Plot is the only thing that separates an actual story from drivel. Sure, it is nice to "indulge" in a scene just for the sake of satisfying some inner desires, but for the most part, it isn't really a story if it has no plot. Which is not to say that there is no place for works that do not contain plots.

Grammar and Spelling are more than just pet peeves. It may sometimes seem as though people are just being picky about these things, but it is better to check and double check your work to make sure that the grammar and spelling are correct. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it makes a story (original or fanfic) more difficult to read if you have to read a sentence multiple times and then decipher what is being said. If someone has to work to read it, then it isn't worth reading, no matter how great the plot or characters may be. And, it isn't difficult to find a spell checking program. Most word processing programs out there have them already.

On a personal level, I agree that comments like "This is great!" are not helpful. Neither are comments like "This sucks!" I get those more than anything in response to my writing. I am glad that people feel so strongly about my writing that they want to say something about it, either good or bad, but that doesn't really help me. What was so great about it? Why did it suck? Those are the things I want to know.

Fortunately, I have found a couple of people who give me real feedback, and these are the ones who get to see my work first. When I get a response from these people, I know it is going to be thoughtful constructive criticism that consists of much more than just simple compliments or derogatory statements.

But, to be honest, when I read something, I rarely sit down and analyze it. I notice some good points and some bad points, but for the most part, I don't pick it apart, stating each thing that I like or dislike. The exceptions come only when I have been specifically asked to so. Some people have only asked me to do a real critique of their work once, and then I am never asked again. Others have said that they really appreciate my help and input, and send me more to read and critique for them. This is another way of challenging yourself. It helps you grow as a writer to help others with their writing.

Personally, I rarely write short fics, and I am not certain I have ever written a short short fic. This is something that I am trying to work on, though. I tend to write longer fics, but I believe that I have managed to keep them interesting. I don't think that my fics are filled with useless or meaningless descriptions, either.

Most often, it comes down to personal preference. There is no fic that will satisfy every reader.

Okay, I have said my piece. I would welcome any comments or complaints. And, if anyone is interested in reading anything I have written, just let me know. I would be glad to oblige.

Oh, and one more thing, that I feel is important. I have only written fanfic for Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Series, but I have also written several pieces of original fiction as well.

[ 03-26-2004: Message edited Mr. Impatient ]

Deelicious

I have to say that I completely agree with this statement. It seems to me that a lot of fictions do that. They simply ramble and ramble on with no particular end in sight. I don't get that at all. I'm a lot like you. I never, never start a story without knowing exactly how it will end and I rarely write one without the benefit of an outline.

As for criticism, I'm all for it. Bring it on. However, I think people have a skewed perception of what constructive criticism is. I've read comments where people rag on and on about how a particular character is written yet they offer no helpful solutions on how the writer can make that character more realistic. That peeves me. The very premise of constructive criticism is to be constructive, to build up the writing and make it better. If your comments aren't serving that purpose then they aren't being constructive.

Like Crossbow and Silversun, I put a great deal of emphasis on grammar as well. I agree that proper grammar helps to make a story clear and, consequently, a more enjoyable read. I can't tell you how many fics I've left off reading for purely grammatical reasons. That's part of the reason I don't offer to beta many people. Most writers don't place any more importance on grammar than they do on rising action, falling action and climax. I usually end up wanting to rewrite most of what they've sent me. It's really frustrating.

Of course, writing is a learning process. I do believe that we, as writers, get better as we go but, if that growth isn't happening (as is the case with a lot of fic writers out there) I think they should give it up. Writing isn't for everyone. JMO though.

Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast

I don't know. On very short one-shot stories I have absolutely no idea how it will all come out. I just write. I don't think that's necessarily bad. It doesn't mean I can't write. I think one can write short one-shots without mapping it all out.

I *do* tend to write pages upon pages of notes for stories that are longer than one chapter. I have my Tom/Hermione story (which will probably never be finished since I'm heavily into femslash at this point in time) and I've planned out how it ends and begins and am wishy washy on what's in the middle.

Good grammar is important. Not everyone will be able to take to it naturally but that's what beta's are for. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gabrielle

Mr. Impatient

The only notes I make are general ideas that I want to try to work with, and they usually end up reading more like something you would read in the TVGuide about an episode. Then, when I get the time, I just start writing, and see what happens.

In one particular fanfic, I had Lindsey (from Angel) meet up with Xander (from Buffy). In the sequel, I was trying to get Lindsey "initiated" into the Scooby Gang, and it turned out focusing more on Dawn than anyone else. It worked, especially for the purpose I had originally, but I had never considered using Dawn to further a male slash fic.

M & M

What are your opinions on having a character say something in a foreign language? I'm writing a fic right now and want to include something in Latin. I know that no one is going to know what it means and so I'm trying to figure out where to translate it. I have a few options:

Having this character or another character translate it while speaking. - I'm leaning away from that simply because I think it's kind of tacky.

Translating it in italics after it was spoken.

Or translating it at the end of the fic.

What do you guys think?

Silversun

I think it'll be best, and the least intrusive, if you put the translations down at the end of the story. And putting the other-language sections in italics also looks nice.

I remember in my first fic someone was doing a spell in Latin, and I put the translation straight after the sentences in brackets. It didn't look good, and interrupted the flow of the story. So I'd strongly recommend not placing the translation somewhere in the middle. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I take a fair bit of notes for my fics. Mostly because I write ongoing 'episodes' and always need to keep story arcs in mind. I usually have a pretty detailed storyboard before I start writing. Short stories are different though - I tend to have an idea, try to get myself a bit drunk or whatever, and do stream-of-consciousness. The best sentences tend to come for me that way. Then the next day I clean it up and make the psycho babble look presentable. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

M & M

Thanks! That's what I was thinking and it's good to know you agree. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Mr. Impatient

I have included some latin in a recent fanfic. I think it depends on the situation as to how to translate it.

Sometimes, you can "translate" it by having somone else talk about it, using footnotes, or, in some cases, you can have it translated by actions of other characters.

For me, it wasn't that difficult, because I used the Latin as "magic words," so the "effect" was the translation.

Catalinay

I didn't really take extensive notes for my epic fic - a few notes on technical things. Mostly I just talked the storyline through with my friends. One of my favorite memories is sitting with Amber at a cafe on Hollywood Blvd. talking about our fic! [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

For my shorter fics, I generally just let them take me where they will. A lot of them are at least partially inspired by music - if not lyrics, then the general mood of a song - so I might listen to a song on repeat while I write and just see where it takes me.

Mr. Impatient

I do this, too. But, I tend to do this for all of my writing.