Subject

"When a religious group leads a boycott of Grace's classes, she is forced to face her prejudices and the impact these have had on her sons"

For a more in depth/spoilerish description go here

Miss this episode? Don't worry - check out KTLA's episode summary!

smoothaise

Ooo! First to comment.

Well, I take back what I said Subject, I will be sticking with this show. It's my new weekend winddown.

This week's episode was great. I love the addition of Bradley Cooper, he's gonna be great on this show. I already like his banter with Grace. I kind of pegged the whole hidden identity.

I really appreciated Bobby's newfound appreciation for religion. And I love how he knew hebrew better then the other kid.

Jack did a really nice thing for Marcus. And I thought that scene at the dinner table with Missy was hysterical.

Overall, I really liked this episode and it restored my interest in the show. I'll keep watching. Although, next week seems a little too jam packed. That's my opinion. I dunno.

Subject

Ken Just when we thought you were out, they pull you back in.

Tonights episode was good. It really took me by surprise to find out that Bobby was/will be a Reverand someday. I was just like wow. We know now how he first became into religion. However, part of me is thinking that he one day becomes a full Reverand because of Jack's death.

When Missy was coming up to see Jack and said "want to walk me to class" I thought she had intentions of making Courtney leave. Then she went and made that comment of "She doesn't like me does she?" I'm not sure about her. I can't tell if she is trying to be mean to Courtney and push her away from Jack or if she really just wants all of them to be friends.

Not a lot of the couples in this episode besides Jack/Missy. Which was cute. I liked how her dad is a minister. Now I know why it always seems like there are two sides to her. He public image and the underneath. Ever seen Footloose? Jack took the oath, I under if he will follow it. I doubt it though. I mean he is a teenage guy. Then again you never really know.

Jack and Marcus relationship is great. I loved how Jack could have just accepted that Marcus didn't want to run anymore and take his place while Marcus worked for his family. However, Jack did the honorable thing and helped his friends family with the business.

I think that Grace was right about the issue of religion. Atleast in the fact of her speeches. She was being biased but who really isn't? Everyone has their own views which do influence the way they say things or teach. The whole apologize or we will walk out was just stupid.

As for the future situation. It does seem alittle far fetched that a reverand wouldn't let his religion affect his political goals. However, I loved that line... "They didn't elect me Reverand of the United States." Some people do know that their religion is a private personal matter. Shouldn't be used for votes or any political gain. I think that really undermines the bias for any principal that any religion was founded upon.

nun with a gun

another good episode.

the only thing that i didnt like was the Missy dinner...it seemed rushed and not at all followed through completly. and plus it involved Missy--my fave character

religion is always uncomfortable to talk about but i think they handaled it well, with both sides having equal time to explain themself. i especially liked when Muslim student explaide why she wears a scarf on her head. and the fact that Grace understud it enough to say that she was sorry.
it was kinda funny to see a white boy with no rhytam dancing

Jack is a very good friend. and i liked when the grown up Marcus said about Bobby "and just like Jack Bobby was a man of faith"

i really loved the interaction between Bobby and Grace when they were fighting in fron of the car. both of these actors feed off of eachother perfectly and its a plesure to just watch em. and if one of em dont get a nom for Golden Globe or Emmy, i will seriosly shoot someone...its enough that they have been overlooking Lauren Graham for the past 4 years!

miss blue sky

I thought that was excellent. The religious themes were handled really well.

If this were any other show, I would LOATHE Grace so very, very much, but she's written in such a complex, but clear-sighted way. I understand where she's coming from and why she believes the things she does.

I loved Bobby's plot. and that scene b/w him and Grace...intense.

Jack/Missy supblot was okay. Really enjoyed Marcus's storyline, though.

yeah, and. stuff.

Bkrstar

This is my favorite ep since the pilot. Not only did people shoot Grace down (FINALLY) but we got Bradley Cooper, the awesome Jack/Missy's dad scene ("How do you feel about Jesus?" "I'm pro..."), and Jack/Marcus bonding.

I'm beginning to dislike Bobby though. Was every position in his life formed as a rebellion against his mother?

crazyforcmm

I didn't really like this episode as much as some of the others - I don't know what it is, but it just seems like Jack and Missy was brought on too quick and it doesn't seem right - one episode he's going out of his way to go out with Courtney, then the next episode, he's ga-ga for Missy. I did like how the writers didn't completely forget about Courtney in the episode, but I think it needed a little bit more. I definetly agree that the reverend/ preacher's daughter being rebellious is a bit overused.

I really liked how Bobby and Grace voiced their opinions over religion and that he wanted to experience all religions. It was written perfectly and acted out beautifully

I also liked the Marcus storyline - he became more of a 3-dimensional character and we know a little bit more about him. I like how the writers are starting to expand on other characters in the show

Subject

Well, I don't think that the Jack/Missy thing was rushed upon. Considering that she was his last girlfriend they just jumped back into the relationship that they had.


It's great that they are expanding on the different characters. Especially Marcus. I mean his future self is such a main role in what we learn each episode. It's only right that we know more about his past self and relationship with Jack & Bobby and the others.

Last episodes going with the smart kids was not a rebellion against his mother. He did what she wanted him to do. Then he knew enough to know that those poeple are not the kind of people he wants to be around.

22 Umbrellas

Grace is still my favorite character. I love her. She has completely the same view on faith and belief as I do, and I've found that pretty hard to come by. I liked the way the whole religion thing was handled, too. Both with Bobby and Grace and that scene outside the car was wonderfully written and acted. I liked how Bobby stood up for what he believed in. Sort of anyway.

I love how we learn something new about the future in every episode. It's like all these pieces of a puzzle that will hopefully come together in the finale.

And Bradley Cooper finally shows up! I like what we've seen of his character so far, esp. in that first scene outside the university with Grace.

That promo makes very little sense.

Hobbesian

Well, another episode another cheapshot at Democrats. I've come to expect that now, and I'll alk about that in the politics thread.

As for this episode...I despise the fact that Bobby becomes a Reverend. I despise the fact that Courtney has taken a back seat in the show. I love the acting and the writing is exceptional.

Bradley Cooper's character is not at all what I thought he was going to be, and he's an interesting character that I like a great deal.

As someone else said, what I really find frustrating is that Bobby makes all changes in his life rebelling against his mother. I wonder if the NYT would still suggest this show could replace the West Wing for liberals? I would think not. In fact, there has been nothing in the press about the show since the second episode...and ratings are down again. All this would indicate this will be a very short lived series...

christinedechagny

Even though I share Grace's views on religion, I think that the way she handled the situation was degrading and disespectful. I don't understand how a college professor could be so ignorant about people who have differing opinions, especially on something as serious and personal as religion. I'm glad she eventually apologized, but I think making the church group on campus trying to "convert" the Muslim girl was such a cop-out. It was an attempt to show Grace's actions in a less negative light (ie well if people who oppose her are so crazy, maybe she's right...)I thought that was irresponsible of the writers. She was not right to say the things she did, especially in a public forum, on a college campus, and she should have made a public apology. I also hated the things she said about people who are religious in private. Like I said, I'm not a religious person, but even I know better than to generalize entire populations of people based on their beliefs or traditions. People believe what they do for a reason, just because you disagree doesn't mean they're wrong or they're just ignorant victims. Saying things like that make you the ignorant one.

On other fronts... I don't mind Jack/Missy as much as I thought I would, but still vastly prefer Jack/Courtney... Bobby doesn't interest me much, other than I resent him for being President and Jack dying lol. Interesting that all his major foundations in faith and politics stem from wanting to rebel against his mother.

Subject

I think that Grace was being more angry at the fact that she was being viewed as being bias and therefore not a "good" teacher.

The only problem I have is that she singled out the person who came to her. Other then that, I don't see anything wrong with what she said. Granted I don't know it word for word. However, it seems to me that she was just stating basic fact about religion and the history of the world. Religion is not faith. A person can not believe in an esablished religion and still have faith of a higher power. She was speaking out against the establishment of religion in general. At least that it what I got from what she said.


I agree about that. Not all religious people are like what Grace thinks. To generalize a person would just be wrong. However, she was in private and not in the public view. So she knows enough not to really go against religious people in public just because they believe in something.

I feel that Grace just doesn't understand why they follow a certain way that can go against the times. She sees it as restriction on their individual rights. Which does go against the right to believe in something if you wish. Some views of religion do not really go with the times. Grace knows that. If religion would evolve with the times instead of holding to the basic of the old world. I think that she wouldn't have had a problem with it.

I'm not a religious person. I have my own faith or idea of that higher power. I am not going against religion. I am just saying that some things were written when times were different. I think we all can agree on that. Like the original laws of United States. We can change laws. Changing a religion is different. To quote the movie Dogma in not an exact way " People die for that, wars are fought for that. It's better to have an idea than an established way of things. You can change an idea. Changing a religion is harder. Almost impossible."

christinedechagny

I'm talking about when she singled out the student who had approached her and suggested that she was the one who was ignorant and had to open her mind to other ideas, etc. I didn't have much of a problem with her initial lecture on religion other than I felt like she should have presented both sides of the argument, ie the positive effects of religion. But my anger mostly stemmed from her basically saying she's right because she's an "objective" professor and any religious student should try to be more open-minded.


I don't think she does though. Because her personal prejudices against religion clearly got the better of her in a public setting when she lectured on only the negative side of religion and then again when she suggested she was objective therefore right. I just feel, as a well educated college professor, she should know better than to be so completely judgemental, whether in private or not.

But that's not her choice to make nor does it justify her actions.

I'm not religious either, but I don't think it's my place at all to try and force my ideals onto others or question/criticize why people believe what they do (beyond genuine curiosity). If a religion starts to cause problems for the people practice it, then they can change it or stop practicing it if they wish. People who are outside the religion thinking their traditions are outdated doesn't mean they're wrong.

Subject

I didn't take it that Grace was saying that she was better then that student. I took it as she saying that everyone has their own bias views. Those views could be about anything. Each person goes their own way in life and there for will two people will never see something the exact same way. She was saying that the student should be more open minded and real. Telling her, the teacher that she thought she was being bias against religion. Was because she herself was for religion. Which is another bias in itself.



What are the postive effects of religion on society as a whole? You can't say anything really. Or if you can I would love to know. Each person is different when it comes to their religions. However, with the negative you can see it more clearly. Example: Religious wars because wars cause death, devestation and effect the world. A person individual beliefs do not affect the world on that massive scale.



There is no right or wrong when it comes to religion. Everything is about perspective and interpurtation.

Hobbesian

The fact of the matter is that what Grace did what an ambigious situation. Firstly, Profs are biased and always are. Anyone who is at, or has gone to, university is well aware of that. Further, their bias is perfectly acceptable - as long as they acknowledge the flip side of the coin. Several times during my time at college, I spent the entirety of a course arguing against what the Prof was teaching. Most memorably was my experience in comparative politics where I argued for the entire class that the Canadian system of government was superior to the American system, the exact opposite of what the Prof was teaching and insisted was right. In every class I where I did that, I received an A.

So, whose fault was what happened in Grace's class? The student's. She didn't defend herself, she just flipped out and ran away.

College professors are biased. Both my parents are college professors. All their friends are professors. Some of the things I could tell you about the behavior and opinions of college profs would knock your socks off. To try to hold these profs to a standard which nobody else is held to is preposterous. To hold a fictional character to a standard to which we don't even hold our real profs is laughably naive.