So I finally was able to watch the episode and right now I wish I didn't. I am kind of sad right now because One Tree Hill use to be my favorite show and now it is turning to a show that I hate. I can't believe the show that I would look forward to every week has become one that I don't even care about watching anymore. I miss the One Tree Hill from seasons 1-3. I hated last season and refused to buy the DVD's to add to my DVD collection of seasons 1,2 and 3 because there is not a single episode from last season that I would want to watch again. I continued watching last season even though I hated it because I was holding out hoping that it would get better but it didn't. I don't know if I can do that again this season. When I found out this season was going to be a 4 year time jump I was excited because I thought there was so many things they could do and I just knew this season would be better than last. Boy was I wrong. This season started off great, I loved the first 5 episodes but it has gone down hill since then and I don't see it getting any better. I loved the first few episodes because all the characters were shown but now I just feel like the show is going to turn into the Lucas and Peyton show and I went through that last year and I don't want to do it again especially with the way they are acting. So now I feel like I shouldn't waste my time tuning in this year like I did last year. I think I will no longer watch on Tuesday nights and just come on fanforum to read what everyone says about the episode and if a great scene is mentioned that I MIGHT want to see then I will watch the rerun of the show on Wednesday or Sunday. I just can't go through another season 4 again. Anyway sorry that I had to vent now on with my review:


Owen is an okay guy but I just don't see him as a love interest for Brooke. I hated that he told her she was going to be like her mom. I did like the conversation they had at the end of the episode when he said she wasn't like her mom because she had friends. Too bad her friends weren't there for her like she was there for them. Anyway I feel Owen is more like the big brother type and that they could become great friends. Like he mentioned he just seems to old for her to me.

Naley I have a lot of issues with their storyline. I don't understand why there always has to be someone coming in between them causing problems. Been there done that. We've had Haley's sister Taylor, Chris Keller, Rachel and now Carrie. Why can't they just be happy. They should be the happy, loving couple on the show. If they really need to have drama with them there are other problems people have in their marriage beside another person getting involved. I am just getting tired of the same thing with them. I will say that I did like that last season there was the Dante stuff but before that was Rachel.

Lindsey I really felt bad for. I have no problems with her because she hasn't done anything to make me dislike her. I just hate that she is going to end up getting hurt when she really doesn't deserve it.

Peyton is a character that I use to like but stopped liking her when she kissed Lucas the first season. Eventually I got over it and started liking her again during the second season. I LOVED her when she was with Jake. My feelings changed for her during the third season when she AGAIN kissed Lucas. Since then I just dislike her more and more every episode. She needs to realize that it's NOT all about her (even though for some reason the writers think it is). She is selfish and only wants what she wants and doesn't care who she hurts in the process. It's like she thinks her love for Lucas is more important than Brooke's love for Lucas (season 3) and now this season AGAIN she thinks her love for Lucas is more important than Lindsey's love for Lucas. I could understand her admitting her love to him if in either season he was having problems with his significant other and wasn't happy with them so much that he was on the verge of breaking up with that person. It still wouldn't make it right to kiss him and confess her feelings since he is with that other person but I would understand if she did. Just like Lucas said I feel like she wants him when he is with someone else. Another thing about her this season is she is so annoying. I hated how she would give Lindsey the evil stare while they were at the club, it was so childish. I understand why Lindsey did it especially since she had overheard Peyton say she didn't like her. But why was Peyton staring and trying to get Haley away from her, it was just stupid and immature. I thought I couldn't hate her anymore than I did last season but again I was wrong. Maybe this season is the destruction of Peyton's character like last season was the destruction of Brooke's and second season was the destruction of Haley.

Lucas was so much better the beginning of the season. After that kiss it seems like he is turning into the indecisive person he was back in high school. I loved when he told Peyton she has an alarm that goes off whenever he is happy with someone else. I hated that he kissed her back. I think that he and Peyton are always going to have a connection because they are so much alike. I do feel like he is holding on to a childhood obsession he had with her just like she is holding onto her obsession of him. I think she loves to be saved by him and he loves playing that role as her hero. I just think they are stuck in the past and definitely need closure but I do not think they need to be together. They bring out the worst in each other and I do not enjoy watching it. I really hope the kiss between he and Peyton made him realize he loves Peyton but he isn't IN love with Peyton which is why he proposed to Lindsey. Unfortunately I don't think that is where this storyline is going to go which again is a reason why I don't want to continue watching.

Leyton I will never like because I don't like cheaters. WHY DO THEY ALWAYS KISS WHEN LUCAS IS IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE ELSE!!! This does not make me like them. I am tired of them cheating AGAIN. I didn't like it season 1 or season 3 and I don't like it now in season 5. It is getting old. To me that does not show that they are "meant to be" instead it makes me think they should stay far away from each other. Is the cheating suppose to make me root for them to get back together because there are so many other ways to do that. You would think that they would have learned from all the drama that happened when they did it to Brooke but I guess they didn't. Because of that I will never be able to support them. I've said it before and I will say it again. If they are meant to be then they will get together. There is no need to cause any problems or issues in Lucas current relationship because if they are suppose to be together then eventually they will get together.

Brooke is my favorite character but I really did not like her in this episode. I don't understand why she has to throw herself at Owen. This isn't high school anymore, been there done that. No need to see it AGAIN. She is the one I have seen matured more this season but then to have her chase after Owen is so dumb. I feel like she is above the childish games and I don't know why they are having her do that. However that was not the worst thing that she did in this episode. I can not believe they had her downplay her relationship with Lucas. I watched seasons 1-3, I fell in love with the Brucas relationship during their buildup in season 2 and 3. For the writers to then have her say that Leyton are meant to be and to act like the Brucas relationship was nothing makes me angry. I was okay with the part when she said she was Lindsey because she was insecure like Lindsey but who wouldn't be if your best friend and boyfriend had cheated before. But when she told Peyton to go get her man, I am still flabbergasted thinking about it. I watched the previous season and I know that she was heartbroken during season 1 to have the two people she loved the most betray her. Then again in season 3 when she found out about the kiss. So why would she tell Peyton to go after Lucas when she knows how hurt she was when "she was Lindsey" during the Brucas/Leyton triangle. This was the final straw that broke the camel's back and is why I don't think I will be faithfully tuning in the rest of this season. It has been a fun ride but I think this is where I get off.

Manu9 and Jerry D I love reading your reviews. Manu I am not the biggest Lucas fan but I've loved and agreed with most of what you have had to say about all the episodes this season. I love that you always discuss it from Lucas point of view and it gives me another way to look at it and I've really haven't had any issues with what you said. I've actually agreed with a lot of it. Jerry I love that you are new to the show so you don't have any preference on the couples or certain characters so it is good to read what you think. I can't wait to see how your opinion will change or not change after you watch the previous seasons.

This is how I feel, too. I don't see the chemistry I am supposed to see, I just see the results of their relationship, and it sucks. I understand that they have a lot in common (blonde, broody, "misunderstood", with selfish tendencies), and I have seen them connect well as friends, but together, it just seems wrong. I don't buy it.

I really wish they would take the Dawson/Joey route with this one... but I really don't think it's gonna happen. :rolleyes: The end will probably be LP, people will be hurt, Brooke will be happy (?! :rolleyes:), and all will be well... at least in the eyes of the writers. But not this viewer.

I do not condone cheating. At all. So sick of LP doing it, of Peyton going for it and Lucas going along. But even if I tried to get past the fact that this is the third time she's done this and look into Peyton's head right now -- it just pisses me off.

Personally, if I spilled my guts out to a guy the way Peyton did, after three years of (useless) pining... and he kissed me back, left me to go back to his girlfriend, and then PROPOSED TO HER and smugly watched my reaction without saying a word? I would get the hell out of there. As selfish as Peyton is being, Lucas is being 100000X worse in my eyes. He is hurting and deceiving two women who he supposedly loves/loved, and it is sickening to watch.

If Peyton still decides that she wants to "gets her man" then she deserves to be with this LucASS. Even she (who I am SO. IRRITATED. WITH.) deserves better than a guy who would do such a thing, to her or to Lindsay. Lucas needs to be alone.

I seem to be in the minority, but I didn’t completely hate the episode. To me the episode felt kind of blah…:blank: I neither hated nor liked it completely. However, there were many aspects that really irked me or that I flat out hated.

The best first…I really liked Millicent and Owen. Millicent is just cute and Owen kind of hot.

I don’t know why, but I don’t really care for this Nathan/Nanny crap…I seriously don’t know why Nathan doesn’t talk to Haley about it whether or not she likes Carrie. She constantly behaves completely inappropriately, tries to flirt with him, drinks in front of the couples whose kid she is supposed to take care of…Seriously nobody can be this dumb and obvious :shrug:

The Brooke/Vicky drama seems way out of line for me. Is Vicky a human being? Does she have feelings? I would appreciate if they show some sort of insight of her feelings or at least explain why she is this cold hearted with her own daughter. Apparently Victoria is very important for Brooke, so please show me why…because so far I don’t get why she hasn’t moved on from this ‘mom’ especially since I consider Brooke a very determined and independent character in s5. Maybe still some insecurity issues…

Peyton has been my favourite character since the pilot and always will be, so naturally I am hestitant to judge her and I feel for her the most. However, I have no problem to admit that I didn’t like some of her moves this episode…like initiating a kiss, this is so old :yawn: I don’t know but I thought that she did the right thing with admitting that she came back for Lucas. He flat out asked her, yelled at her and pushed her buttons and while now some say she should have bottled it up, some might have said that she is lying to his face. It’s a win-win situation for her.

Lucas/Lindsey…I seriously don’t know which one was more of a moron. They are both getting on my last nerve. Lucas could simply spare us a lot of drama if he either was honest with himself or stopped seeing Peyton altogether. Who is he to take his anger of his fight with Lindsey out on Peyton like he did, with all the yelling? Sure he is all emotional, although he somehow doesn’t admit it to himself, but a little bit of self control would be appropriate (for Peyton too btw). If I try I can see where he is coming from, but the tone makes the music. No matter how this proposal went down, it stinks. How can you possibly go from kissing back your ex to being engaged to someone else in the span of 5 secs? I can’t believe that in the far back of my mind I am still rooting or LP…hell no, certainly not with this version of Luke.
Lindsey was bitching about Lucas’s and Peyton’s past and present relationship the whole evening, but I guess the proposal gave her the reassurance she needed and sometimes when you are insecure about something/someone you cling to things/the person even more…so in the heat of the moment, she accepts. But she is a fool nonetheless if she goes through with it, she should come to her senses the morning after because a proposal is not an answer to sending mixed signals.

I still like this soapy drama fest that is called a show though, but what’s the first line of Mia’s song again…’Never fear the unexpected’, I didn’t expect this engagement, I’m dreading on my tip-toes all the unexpected things we’ll get and I will dread the reusing of the same old stuff too :yawn:

I completely agree. I don't want her to be desperate and say things like 'Don't marry Lindsey' in the promo :rolleyes: She needs to end whatever this thing with Lucas might be called and please pronto or her character will be damaged even more and that would let boil my blood with anger.

I agree with you and with this:

And also about the destruction of character. Haley's character got majorly OOC in season two and I have only just now begun to like her. This time, if Peyton continues acting like this, she will have 0 fans left by the end of it all.

I think that Lucas should go away on a book tour for 3 months WITHOUT Lindsay. And then maybe Lindsay can show us her personality and maybe bond with Peyton. I think other than their Lucass rivarly, they might have been good friends.

I mean, Lindsay can't be THAT bad. She's friends with Haley!!

Exactly. I don't see how Peyton can let a guy completely mess her dignity up like that. I thought she was above that.

I get it..true love..whatever.

I thought it was a good episode with the twist at the end.

But i must say i'm not enjoying how the main story is Lucas and Peyton still. It's just dull and boring now after so many years of it. Doesn't help that Peyton just totally annoys the hell out of me.

Me too. I'm so disappointed in her. =(

The thing that's killing me about this season is that they had to make it LP and NH drama. I'm a LP fan and the angst was ok to start with, but the whole season seems dominated by it now. The love stories that are getting a little played out could have gone into the background to make way for new stuff, but they haven't.

Where are these career storylines we were told about during the promoting the show? It's like you get five minutes here and five there, then back to NH's skanky nanny and the LLP triangle. Have we not seen this before with Rachel and BLP. It seems the writers are determined to show us the same mistakes being made, but with these adult consequences Mark talked about.

They keep using the same old storylines. We've seen them several times before - we KNOW how everything will turn out in the end by now. It's just boring and unneccessary. Come up with something new, for once.

thanks. Lucas is my favorite character and I always try to look at things from his point of view, while I think that generally the fanbase look at things from the girls' point of view. I've always tried to find a sense in what Lucas does and usually I can find it. But now I'm just giving up, I don't even bother anymore, because the truth, in my opinion, is that there is no sense and no point of view to search in all of this. What's happening is just the result of Mark's weird idea of what love is, that works in his mind but it's a stranger to me. I really hate what he is doing to my favorite character. I can't even enjoy any of his scenes anymore. There is absolutely nothing left of the real Lucas Scott in my opinion. Lucas is now just a means to fullfill another dramatic storyline for Peyton Sawyer. And it makes me really sad.

It looks more like Peyton is being destroyed to fullfill another dramatic storyline for Lucas, IMO. She used to be so strong, and now she's petty and jealous due to Lucas. I'm not only putting the blame on Lucas, but Peyton's only storyline right now is the breaking down of her character.

I think it's supposed to be tearing them both down and in the end showing love conquers all. All it's really doing though is making them both look bad at the moment.

I remember when I felt like this about BP last season. I thought oh well they're done, it's just too horrible now. They destroyed Brooke and then had some totally horrible moments. Yet pop a stalker into the mix and hey presto they were best buds in a day.

I am hoping that with the show so obviously heading towards LP, that this time something better is planned. I won't hold my breath and this point though, not after the last episode.

well, look at what's happening to Lucas character, it couldn't be destroyed more than it's happening now :lol: and it's not like he has any storyline going on except screwing things up with Peyton. But I'd say nobody has a storyline right now. If I think about what's happening to Nathan and NH, I feel like we all share the same destiny.

could we please avoid calling Lucas "Lucass"? I don't think it's nice. this is a general thread, I think people shouldn't call characters names like that :)

lmao, believe it or not, but that was a typo. Sorry about that.

I do agree that every fanbase is getting skrewed right now.

Peyton is getting more haters every minute it seems (she used to be my fav, and now I'm just so disappointed)
Brooke fans have to deal with her perky "Lucas who?" attitude ('cause most seem to be BLers) and her mom, who we all wanted to see, is a plain mean bitch.
NH fans got Carrie the hairy not so wonderfull fairy.
And then you have Lucas.

.. Who voted for season 5?!