baggirl

Oh yes! They should have had RM just constantly fighting with each other about meaningful stuff and then having hot makeup sex. That's really all that matters to me.

I somehow really like the idea of a frustrated Ryan. Why didn't we get that?

~Search4Truth~

Frustrated Ryan.

RM&SSforever

No, definitely not
No, they didn't
Kind of agree there, I felt that Ryan could have handled that a bit better. But there was also a part where Marissa was pushing Ryan away and treated him quite bad. IDK
Definitely agree with you
I wouldn't want that constantly. But quite often, sure

~tammy~

A little petty fighting could have been cute But i'm more interested in the make-up sex

Sin*

Wow. Lots of discussion. Let me play catch-up.

ManhattanBabe,

I guess I just don't think it was as bad in the bigger sense of things. Yeah you could blame her for being naive but Oliver made himself look a certain way and manipulated everyone around him. I don't think Marissa was purposely ignoring Ryan I just see it as Oliver monopolizing all of her time and doing that to make Ryan go insane. It was a very smart trick and made Ryan look like the over bearing and over protected boy friend more or less without grounds for it. Which worked. Yes Marissa takes some responsibility but I can't really blame her for trying to be a good person and falling for Oliver's tricks. Marissa loves strays as we saw with Johnny, Ryan, Oliver, Alex, DJ and Volchock. She can't help it. She always goes for the ones with who have broken wing syndrome. Ryan's insistence that he not hang out with her was the entire wrong way to go and I understand it because more or less Marissa seemed to be his first actual relationship he valued. But I don't really blame Marissa for the Oliver situation. Yeah he was there for her and she should have trusted him but what was she supposed to think in response to Ryan punching Oliver and Oliver's rather well thought out machinations of the situations?

I can certainly understand why Ryan was hurt (look at all I did for her, why doesn't she trust me?) but I also think he was really hard on her when even Seth (his best friend who lived with him) thought he was going over board at times. Really the only red sign Marissa had from him in regards to him being a dangerous person was when he held her at gun point which was the very end of their relationship. Prior to that Oliver hadn't done anything to make Marissa believe he was a danger to her. Only Ryan's word and Oliver made him look nuts.

I just think he could have forgiven her sooner and not made her suffer, because that's what it was. He was punishing her for not siding with him and not believing him. Which I understand and get in a petty teenage way and I am not devaluing his feelings but I guess I just think he is wrong for wanting to hurt her in revenge when it's clear that Marissa wasn't trying to hurt him and pretty much any pain he felt was not intentional. Where as with Ryan it clearly was. I just think he should have forgiven her, it's clear she was sorry.

Well what did Oliver do to make Ryan feel so threatened in Marissa's eyes? Pretty much nothing. She didn't understand why Ryan was feeling jealous about Oliver and Ryan wasn't communicating with her enough to tell her that he was jealous before he made issues worse. I think had Ryan just told Marissa that he wanted to spend time with her alone she would have gotten it. But Ryan would never do that. lol. I see both sides of the issue. When we get Ryan's view (the shows view basically) of things we are easily sympathetic to Ryan and ask ourselves why is Marissa being so dense. But if we take a step and see it from Marissa's pov we see a completely different issue. She had no clue that Oliver was being deceitful and goading Ryan for episodes on end.

I agree.

I actually think she was just trying to keep him out of trouble. Ryan needed to be nowhere near that case after his rap sheet and record with the police. The last thing Ryan needed was to be under a murder investigation for killing Johnny. I actually think it was one of the times in their relationship that Marissa was trying to protect Ryan. Which I find to be incredibly beautiful. It's a lot like the scene in Secrets in Lies when Marissa is having her breakdown but she makes sure Ryan's girlfriend Sadie doesn't leave because she wants him to be happy. I find moments like that to be completely beautiful because it shows Ryan's effect on Marissa.

She completely loses herself when she isn't with him and when he isn't in her life (beginning of s2, mid s3) but then when he comes back to her even in a friendly capacity it's like she comes back to earth and it soothes her from the restless state she is without him. Even when Marissa isn't with him she looks out for him and supports his relationships because she wants the best for him the same thing happened with Lindsey.

Baagirl

Thanks for answering my question. I wanted to get a fleshed out opinion and I feel better now that I've got multiple takes on the last season. How would you rate each season of the O.C.?

Tammy

I am convinced he has no clue how to write pairings. He does the same thing with Gossip Girl. They exchange lovers and relationships like they are napkins. For the most part I think Marissa and Ryan were a really good couple yet most of their important storyline's seem to happen without one another or when they are separated. It's very rare that they actually do stuff together which I don't understand why. But even Summer and Seth were stagnant at times too (S2 comes to mind). Marissa and Ryan had three breaks ups in three seasons. I think that in itself shows how unimaginative he is. He killed off Marissa because he 'didn't see any more story with her' and he 'needed a big dynamic moment'. I don't think he knows how to write a long-term story, let alone an overreaching plot that goes through the entire season. He has great initial ideas but he doesn't know how to flesh them out and make them viable for more then a few episodes.

RM&SSforever

Yeah, same here
I actually agree with that, I think she didn't wanted him to be involved with the police etc so she tried to protect him from it all. When she talked to the police, I think she said something about that or she atleast mentioned Ryan, IDK.
I think he knows how to write pairings quite well actually. He is good at build-up but sometimes he doesn't know what to do, I guess.
That can I agree with

~tammy~

I agree with your take on the Oliver situation A LOT. We didn't get any of Marissa's POV and had we got that, we would have understood her behaviour. Oliver was a great manipulator of people and Marissa was young and naive, in that context everything fits together and makes sense. They made it very one-sided towards Ryan imo.

I agree with this too I don't think I have anything else to add really. Those moments were she helps his other relationships are some of the best of the show imo, it runs home just how deep there love is. I think they were probably the best example of unconditional love between a couple on TV.

Ryan did have a profound effect on her, perhaps more so than she had on him. If Ryan had died, I can't imagine what Marissa would have been like - my guess is suicidal.

I agree, Josh is a man of ideas but not one who is able to sustain them.


And one more criticism I would have is that he really is too easily swayed by fan response. I think he got carried away with Seth and Summer to an extent. They were treated as the central relationship (they were consistently given scenes and had more of a consistent arc than RM) but they didn't quite have the depth to be the central focus. They were a wonderful supporting relationship. I would be ok with them being the central relationship and RM on the back-burner if they were given more meaty storylines. Big issue with S4 was that there was no dramatic centre IMO. It was all over the place with comedy and chessiness.

Plus, with killing off Marissa, I can't help feeling that he was swayed by the media. It was probably that and his never-ending desire for a OMG moment

RM&SSforever

Definitely. He knew what he was doing
Yeah, I think so too. This is going to sound very mean but I kind of wished that they both died instead of just one of them or that Ryan would have taken suicide, because if that would have happend, we can say that they ended up together even though it wasn't a happy ending. But they atleast died together then
I agree with this

Sin*

Well they were a fluff couple. I don't mean that in a bad way but they were. Which is fine I guess because both Seth and Summer are more or less fluff characters used more for comic relief then dramatic tension. I honestly can't remember either of them being apart of an actual dramatic storyline by themselves. Seth had that running away plot I guess but that is pretty much it. Even their romance was treated lightly. They were supporting characters. I do think it's interesting that they are the one stable pairing in the O.C. though. However they didn't deal with half of the issues Ryan and Marissa faced.

Yeah I agree. Had Ryan died TJ would have looked like a night cap.

~tammy~

The two relationships - RM and SS - actually compliment each other well and they give the show a real balance as there was in S1. And also within both relationships there was a better balance of light and tension in S1, particularly RM (SS were always a little on the fluffy side - and entertaining at that - but in S1 they had more of an edge imo).

Generally speaking, since season 2 the show lost a lot of balance. It was either two silly or two dark. The later half of season 2 was the most reminiscent of S1 because we finally had the central relationship of RM back.

RM&SSforever

That's true, so we can't really say that they got through a lot. They should have gotten more heavy stuff to work through.
Yeah, the later half of S2 was really good

~tammy~

the second half was very good, the trey arc was probably the best arc the show ever did even though the follow through into season 3 was disappointing

baggirl

My frustration with the Oliver eps was that from there onwards, Marissa never stood a chance with the viewers. I am totally on Ryan's side with the Oliver eps and that Marissa has no excuse treating Ryan like a non boyfriend there. However, I can admit that in the Oliver eps, the audience was given a sympathetic view towards Ryan. And it has always been the case with the show. Ryan was often written to have done no wrong and based on his character, it would have made sense for him to make some mistakes in their relationship. The writing was very much biased towards Ryan.

I get that Marissa was written as this girl who often gets herself into these situations that she could have avoided. But I hate that she was written to have never learn her mistakes. I refuse to believe the girl could be so insensitive towards ryan's feelings and repeated her same actions with Johnny as how she was Oliver.

It would be nice if Ryan was the one paying too much attention to another girl for a change and letting Marissa experience for herself how Ryan must have felt.

I love S1 the most. Because it was RM at their most innocent. And then it's a tie on the second half of S2 and the first half of S3.

~tammy~

When I first watched the OC, I never blamed either of them nor did I pick sides but the bias in the represantation does frustrate me.

They both made mistakes and understandbly because they were young and growing up. But it needs to be evident that it was both of them and not just Marissa.

"You'reMyLittleSnowAngel"

Thanks for the new thread, Tammy.

Wow, so much discussion to catch up on!