The O.C. - Naughties (Ryan/Summer) #40: B/C We Have Our Own Tumblr Page Now!

**starryeyesxx** · 04-28-2011, 11:44 AM

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Now Celebrating 40 Threads!
We are currently 10 threads away from having 50 threads, so we're going to have 10 threads of partying! We will have;

-Picspams
-Recaps
-Clips

Deleted scenes, you know the ones we didn't see, but all know that happened.

Survivors including;
Most Wanted Triangle
Show We'd Most Like to See R/S On
Best Eye-sex Moment
Favorite Season 1 Episode
Favorite Season 2 Episode
Favorite Season 3 Episode
Favorite Season 4 Episode

& of course, lots of Ryan/Summer love!

Previous titles:
Thread #1: She wants to play him hot and cold...
Thread #2: She likes Chino, don't deny it!
Thread #3: They both like getting it on in the poolhouse
Thread #4: Because he was so checking her out at the party!
Thread #5: Same signs, same lines. Totally meant to be.
Thread #6: Because he played with her hair.
Thread #7: Because they would look so good together!
Thread #8: He looked down her cleavage. It's love.
Thread #9: Because they deserve a chance!
Thread #10: Because they're the Nathan/Brooke of Orange County
Thread #11: Because Season 3 without Ryan/Summer action? EW!
Threads #12 to #15: ????
Thread #16: No title
Thread #17: Because they'll need each other now more than ever.
Thread #18: Because she liked him first!
Thread #19: Because they'll take care of each other.
Thread #20: Because he makes her world spin with a smile!
Thread #21 :Because she came back for him.
Thread #22 Because she flew 3000 miles for him
Thread #23 Because He doesn't mind taking orders from her

Title suggestions:
Because it's the way Marissa would have wanted it. (Unpredictable)
Because they hugged! (Butterflygirl)
She makes him smile like noone else does (Butterflygirl)
Because he prefers brunettes (Butterflygirl)
Because She knows exactly what he needs (christinachloe19)

~Search4Truth~ · 04-28-2011, 11:48 AM

Thanks for the new thread, Sophie!

I adore your OP!

From the last thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tslpsh (View Post)

You bring up an interesting point, I do think Ryan would've probably forgiven Marissa either way eventually. It's a bit melodramatic of me to say a permanent rift.

Yeah, Trey was still in a coma and they thought he wasn't going to make it, but Ryan told Marissa it's okay and they had a good time at the beach still (along with Seth and Summer) so I feel his love for Marissa was so strong that whatever rift caused by Trey dying would have been overcome since she saved his life.

Quote:

In those cases, I wonder why the person who caused the person to be injured acted the way they do and find them to be more interesting. Stories based on character flaws, basically, is what is interesting to me. You make a point though about how they can sometimes be interrelated.

See, Ryan's character flaws would have been brought out more as well had he been injured by someone else. Consider his reaction after he wakes up in the hospital, for example, after he learns he has a permanent injury of some sort. He'd be frustrated and angry for a while, and when someone is put through extreme situations and stress, that's when you get to see what their true personality is like and if they are able to cope or if they are going to break under pressure. It's when you see if they are a conqueror or if they are just going to cave in and give up. It's when you see someone develop the most in real life actually. In real life, the most profound people in my opinion tend to be those who have experienced and overcome a lot of hardship.

On the flip side, we would have witnessed Trey's emotional state and how having done what he did to Ryan would affect him psychologically. Perhaps he and his brother would never be able to make amends because of what he did. Perhaps Ryan would never forgive him for almost killing him. This conflict in my opinion could have been extremely interesting and if handled well, it wouldn't have even been cliched. Like I said before, Ben McKenzie certainly could have nailed this as an actor. I happen to think he is fantastic.

Quote:

Maybe, if you are into that hallmark card sorta thing, but I still believe ideally a story where a character has a 'fatal flaw' they can't overcome triumphs a story where external characters and situations cause a majority of their problems.

I happen to like both situations.

Actually, I prefer a combination of the two. Most of the time, these two situations are interrelated. How we deal with circumstances that are out of our control often shape who we become. It's how we handle adversity that either makes us or breaks us. There are psychological factors that tie into this as well.

For example, perhaps Ryan overcame his physical ailment and rose above his circumstances, but was unable to forgive anybody and let his anger control him and hinder his ability to relate to people. Then that lack of trust begins to overwhelm him and it becomes his fatal flaw so to speak. Someone would have to get through to him (maybe Sandy... maybe Summer) before he reaches a breaking point where he loses himself completely.

tslpsh · 04-28-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

See, Ryan's character flaws would have been brought out more as well had he been injured by someone else. Consider his reaction after he wakes up in the hospital, for example, after he learns he has a permanent injury of some sort. He'd be frustrated and angry for a while, and when someone is put through extreme situations and stress, that's when you get to see what their true personality is like and if they are able to cope or if they are going to break under pressure. It's when you see if they are a conqueror or if they are just going to cave in and give up. It's when you see someone develop the most in real life actually. In real life, the most profound people in my opinion tend to be those who have experienced and overcome a lot of hardship.

On the flip side, we would have witnessed Trey's emotional state and how having done what he did to Ryan would affect him psychologically. Perhaps he and his brother would never be able to make amends because of what he did. Perhaps Ryan would never forgive him for almost killing him. This conflict in my opinion could have been extremely interesting and if handled well, it wouldn't have even been cliched. Like I said before, Ben McKenzie certainly could have nailed this as an actor. I happen to think he is fantastic.

Ryan would've been mad at him at first sure, but we know he'd probably get over it eventually. It's that that I have a problem with so much as the whole "Trey sees the light and becomes a better person because of it." I just don't buy it. Maybe momentarily, but eh, I don't believe in permanent behavior changes really.

Quote:

For example, perhaps Ryan overcame his physical ailment and rose above his circumstances, but was unable to forgive anybody and let his anger control him and hinder his ability to relate to people. Then that lack of trust begins to overwhelm him and it becomes his fatal flaw so to speak. Someone would have to get through to him (maybe Sandy... maybe Summer) before he reaches a breaking point where he loses himself completely.

Right, But I find alot of fic that focus on injuries have too much 'Mary Sue-ing' of a character and they can't be really called out on their flaws by others and those that hardly know them say how great and strong they are etc. You can't judge a person like that you don't know.How do you know he or she a good or bad person? When you first meet someone, you can't tell if they're good or bad. And some of the worst villains seem like the nicest, most affable people. It is the action that determines character.

"You'reMyLittleSnowAngel" · 04-28-2011, 12:10 PM

Thanks for the new thread!

Love how you've organised the OP.

~Search4Truth~ · 04-28-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tslpsh (View Post)

Ryan would've been mad at him at first sure, but we know he'd probably get over it eventually. It's that that I have a problem with so much as the whole "Trey sees the light and becomes a better person because of it." I just don't buy it. Maybe momentarily, but eh, I don't believe in permanent behavior changes really.

Oh, I didn't say Trey had to become a completely new person because of it (although in real life, things like that usually will drive someone to change and I don't think there's much anyone can say that would convince me otherwise because I've seen it and experienced it).

The fact that you almost killed your brother is going to change you. Whether it's for better or worse is up to the individual, and that's the truth.

Quote:

Right, But I find alot of fic that focus on injuries have too much 'Mary Sue-ing' of a character and they can't be really called out on their flaws by others and those that hardly know them say how great and strong they are etc. You can't judge a person like that you don't know.How do you know he or she a good or bad person? When you first meet someone, you can't tell if they're good or bad. And some of the worst villains seem like the nicest, most affable people. It is the action that determines character.

But my ideas here don't reflect a fic that would become "Mary-Sue" like. If handled correctly, injuries or ailments to characters created by external factors are extremely interesting and true to life, develop the characters MUCH MUCH more, and can even be inspirational in the end.

I like stories that I can relate to. Stories that make me think. Stories that remind me of real life and all we take for granted. My favorite movie is The Elephant Man (true story of Joseph "John" Merrick... the movie was made in 1980). That should give you a clearer understanding of where I'm coming from (in terms of my story interests) if you've seen the movie.

Also, I don't think it's the action that necessarily determines a character. It is the reason/psychology behind the action that determines the character. For example, when Trey sexually assaulted Marissa, did he do a terrible thing? Yes. Was he a bad person? No, I don't think so. He was just lost, intoxicated, drugged up, and let his emotions and impulses control him and take over him, leading him to do something that he regretted afterward... an action that was out of character for him.

"You'reMyLittleSnowAngel" · 04-28-2011, 12:15 PM

Just had another look at the tumblr, it's looking good!

**starryeyesxx** · 04-28-2011, 12:17 PM

yeah, I wouldn't want Trey to just suddenly become Saint Trey, I'd just want him to make a go of things without being a criminal, I'd want him to want to stop screwing up, but to struggle with it & occasionally fail because that's all he's ever done.

& I think if Ryan had been injured he wouldn't of become a Mary-Sue, he'd still be Ryan, he'd still have his same personality & flaws, he would change without a doubt, but bc of what he's already been through, I think he's got a fractured, but very strong personality, & that's what I think would get him through it.

~Search4Truth~ · 04-28-2011, 12:19 PM

Glad you like the tumblr, Naomi!

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

yeah, I wouldn't want Trey to just suddenly become Saint Trey, I'd just want him to make a go of things without being a criminal, I'd want him to want to stop screwing up, but to struggle with it & occasionally fail because that's all he's ever done.

Exactly!

Quote:

& I think if Ryan had been injured he wouldn't of become a Mary-Sue, he'd still be Ryan, he'd still have his same personality & flaws, he would change without a doubt, but bc of what he's already been through, I think he's got a fractured, but very strong personality, & that's what I think would get him through it.

Again, I agree completely. It's that "fractured" personality of his that I love so much. He's strong and definitely flawed, but at the same time... he's a great person. He's a deep person, and he's an over comer. No matter what he goes through, you can't help but root for him. What I loved so much about Ryan was his reticent, caring, protective, but flawed and tortured personality.

**starryeyesxx** · 04-28-2011, 12:25 PM

we have like the same minds!

I've nearly finished the recap for the pilot, just uploading a couple of things!

~Search4Truth~ · 04-28-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

we have like the same minds!

Great minds think alike.

Not that someone doesn't have a great mind if they disagree because they probably still do, but you know what I mean!

Quote:

I've nearly finished the recap for the pilot, just uploading a couple of things!

YAY!

**starryeyesxx** · 04-28-2011, 12:28 PM

yeah i gotcha, I'm so excited, I found a little R/S moment in the pilot that I had never noticed before!

tslpsh · 04-28-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

yeah, I wouldn't want Trey to just suddenly become Saint Trey, I'd just want him to make a go of things without being a criminal, I'd want him to want to stop screwing up, but to struggle with it & occasionally fail because that's all he's ever done.

& I think if Ryan had been injured he wouldn't of become a Mary-Sue, he'd still be Ryan, he'd still have his same personality & flaws, he would change without a doubt, but bc of what he's already been through, I think he's got a fractured, but very strong personality, & that's what I think would get him through it.

He doesn't have to but that's what generally happens in most fics, I've noticed.

I don't know I felt Josh Schwartz Mary Sued both Summer and Ryan by season 3 and 4. Summer being a genius? I never bought Summer as being a virgin when she was with Seth either. I loved Summer's season one personality best. I loved Ryan's arrogance he had in the pilot, they should've played that up more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManhattanBabe (View Post)

Glad you like the tumblr, Naomi!

Exactly!

Again, I agree completely. It's that "fractured" personality of his that I love so much. He's strong and definitely flawed, but at the same time... he's a great person. He's a deep person, and he's an over comer. No matter what he goes through, you can't help but root for him. What I loved so much about Ryan was his reticent, caring, protective, but flawed and tortured personality.

I wish they would've let Ryan and Summer take faults in the relationship sometimes. JS made it so one sided with Marissa and Seth always screwing up. That's why I loved it when Ryan went through Marissa's locker.

~Search4Truth~ · 04-28-2011, 12:33 PM

Summer and Ryan didn't become Mary-sue like. They just became better people. That's what characters are supposed to do. They are supposed to develop and mature. That's what makes them such great characters. It's also what makes them complex characters. Had they stayed the same the entire series, that would have been boring and not profound in my opinion. In fact, they wouldn't be my two favorite characters on the show if they would have never matured and progressed as people.

I love Pilot Ryan and I love S3 and S4 Ryan. He progressed at the right rate for his character. As people in real life, I'd hope we don't all stay the same. I'd hope we learn from our mistakes and become what you seem to think is "Mary-Sue" like. We're supposed to grow up and strive to be as perfect as we can be and improve as people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

yeah i gotcha, I'm so excited, I found a little R/S moment in the pilot that I had never noticed before!

What is it?

**starryeyesxx** · 04-28-2011, 12:36 PM

I wouldn't say they were both Mary-Sue's, they had just grown, Summer always seemed quite sercure in her own skin & had never really been given issues anyway, so I don't see that. Though, I guess it's canon now, but I really didn't buy that Summer was a virgn until Seth, if you look at her character in the first set of episodes, it just doesn't make sense.

Ryan, if anything, was more 'mary-sue' in season 2, in season 3 we got to see more of his anger issues, plus with the triangle with Marissa & Johnny, you also got to see that he wasn't going to be a pushover & beg for Marissa to choose him, he'd had enough of her drama & I don't think that side of him was brought out to show how good he was, but more that he was human and had run out of patience.

Seriously, if you want to see interesting, complex characters somehow become mary-sues & become one dimensional, watch OTH - that happened to all 5 of the main characters by season 6. & that reminds me of something else I just wanted to mention - OTH is probably going to get a season 9, & I used to love this show, but I have really hated the last 3 seasons & just want it to die - I am so glad this didn't happen with the OC! I didn't really like season 4, but still waaay better then what's been going on with OTH!

tslpsh · 04-28-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManhattanBabe (View Post)

Summer and Ryan didn't become Mary-sue like. They just became better people. That's what characters are supposed to do. They are supposed to develop and mature. That's what makes them such great characters. It's also what makes them complex characters. Had they stayed the same the entire series, that would have been boring and not profound in my opinion. In fact, they wouldn't be my two favorite characters on the show if they would have never matured and progressed as people.

I love Pilot Ryan and I love S3 and S4 Ryan. He progressed at the right rate for his character. As people in real life, I'd hope we don't all stay the same. I'd hope we learn from our mistakes and become what you seem to think is "Mary-Sue" like. We're supposed to grow up and strive to be as perfect as we can be and improve as people.

What is it?

People don't change, I just don't believe it. It's like the old 'Greek Tragedies' character tries to overcome their fatal flaw and spends their whole life doing so, which ultimately leads to their demise. Tragic irony at it's best.

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