Spoilers - The Vampire Diaries S&S #316: Stefan Salvatore - flawless saint or cruel killer? Discuss. - Page 2

hurricane eyes · 11-30-2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queenie (View Post)

Can we just get back to whether Stefan is a saint or a remorseless cold blooded killer thing ? Imo Stefan is fairy who farts tiny puffs of glitter that sounds like a unicorns laughter and smells like rainbows

You sound like that Horton Hears A Who character:

LotusRises · 11-30-2013, 03:02 PM

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Originally Posted by AlwaysBL (View Post)

So Elena felt that having sex with Stefan's brother and lying about it wasn't wrong? That's even worse lol.

There was nothing in the episodes to indicate that Elena was just occupied and didn't have time to tell him. 1) She never brought it up in 4x09 2) In 4x10 when she was apologizing, she never even said she meant to tell him and didn't get the chance, she just stood there saying she was sorry 3) Elena had time when Damon sent her back to MF, why would her and Damon need to be together for her to tell Stefan that she slept with him? They weren't together in S3 when she told him she kissed him.

Plus, this behavior has continued this season. She waited until the last possible minute to tell Stefan she was with Damon when his memories were wiped. If Stefan never moves in for the kiss, does she even tell him? Who knows. She's significantly less honest than she used to be.

But she didn't lie. She was planning on telling Stefan.

Oh Elena definitely was fooling Stefan in 5x04, no argument there. But her motivations were different. She was deliberately taking advantage of Stefan's memory loss in an effort to have him fall for her again. I don't think she was doing anything deliberately malicious to Stefan between 4x07-4x10.

LotusRises · 11-30-2013, 03:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Katiesocks (View Post)

I vote cruel killer since he is a vampire and has killed people cruelly. He's more or less a saint these days though. Damon is probably more cruel killer. The vampire psychopath.

They're both cruel killers, I just find Stefan more engaging and more sympathetic. Not because he wants to be a better person, but because a lot of the abuse that fcked him up mentally.

AlwaysBL · 11-30-2013, 03:17 PM

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Originally Posted by rout345 (View Post)

Noooo, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I don't pay attention to interviews because they're not canon and anyway writers lie all the time and actors often have wrong ideas about their characters.

But we should absolutely listen to Elena and the characters and pay attention to what happens on the show. I'm just saying that just because a character says, "Elena has changed" or "Elena is a good person" or "Elena is a bad person" does not mean that any of those things are true or that we should interpret the characters that way. You have to take what's said and then compare it to what the characters do, and that tells you who they are.

This isn't Shakespeare, but it's not a requirement of something at the level of Shakespeare that often people say things that are inconsistent with the truth, or inconsistent with what they truly feel. If a character DOES something, and then SAYS something that blatantly contradicts what they did, that's not Bad Writing. It just tells you something about the kind of person they are.

It would be terrible writing to have all the characters describe each other accurately. The worst kind of writing. They wouldn't be people at all.

But that's exactly what you're doing. You're acting as though there are no writing inconsistencies on this show and that it has to justify who Elena is. I would never call, in my own mind, what Damon and Elena have "love" - but I can still recognize that it is canon that it's love. Sometimes you disagree with the writers, that's just how it is. Your perception isn't always someone else's reality.

And honestly, I don't perceive Elena the same as you do in her actions either. I don't think she is selfish, I think she is human (or was) and she is capable of being both selfish and selfless. I think it's putting her in a box to suggest that if she was selfish at times then, that means she hasn't changed. You can become more selfish, you can be compassionate and still lack it at times vs almost completely lacking compassion, you can forgive bad deeds for different reasons (Elena used to forgive Damon because she empathized with him, she forgives him now because she simply doesn't care what he does/who he hurts the way she used to). At the end of the day, for any character on this show, you can find examples of them being selfish, discompassionate, self-absorbed, horrible etc. But being selfish sometimes doesn't make you a selfish person, it's part of every single person. Nobody is a saint. So yes, Elena was selfish at times, she could be self-absorbed, but now these traits define her in everything she does and IMO that was never the case before. The only time I ever see her compassion anymore is with Aaron - that in itself is a big change because I saw it with absolutely everyone before even if it wasn't present in every single moment she ever lived. And I won't get into the pretending to be someone debate all over again because it's pointless and I disagree.

The characters all commenting on her change supports what has happened on screen, I believe them because what they say is true. I don't think it makes sense to suggest that every single person in Elena's life is wrong about who she was, especially people who have known her for over a decade.

Rapunzel · 11-30-2013, 03:28 PM

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Originally Posted by mmmbacon (View Post)

You sound like that Horton Hears A Who character:

Lezzz be honest,this thread needs peaceful and optimistic people like me

Red Dragon · 11-30-2013, 04:10 PM

I'm going to go with a hybrid...saintly killer.

AlwaysBL · 11-30-2013, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dragon (View Post)

I'm going to go with a hybrid...saintly killer.

Lmao mte

SpencerFan · 11-30-2013, 04:30 PM

#losing faith in humanity all together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwEoiIcLtvk

hurricane eyes · 11-30-2013, 04:53 PM

Dear lord I see there's no hope for the human race.

Damon basically date rapped Caroline in S1 and then tried to kill her in S2 and still talks down to her so I think she has a right to hate on Damon. I like him for his snark, but he's a dick and deserves Caroline's hate.

***Jerry D*** · 11-30-2013, 05:05 PM

Stefan definitely has his times when he's a vicious killer, but the main difference between him and Damon is that he feels remorse for what he does, where Damon revels in being a remorseless killer who's only out for himself. Stefan is no saint, but he's a much nicer and more sympathetic character than Damon is.

Wingster · 11-30-2013, 05:11 PM

^ Exactly
Also Stefan treats people with respect and kindness.
No matter how much Damon is nice to Elena..he still treats everyone else like the dirt on his shoes.

***Jerry D*** · 11-30-2013, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingster (View Post)

^ Exactly
Also Stefan treats people with respect and kindness.
No matter how much Damon is nice to Elena..he still treats everyone else like the dirt on his shoes.

Exactly Kush. Good point.

tvlover92 · 11-30-2013, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)

Stefan definitely has his times when he's a vicious killer, but the main difference between him and Damon is that he feels remorse for what he does, where Damon revels in being a remorseless killer who's only out for himself. Stefan is no saint, but he's a much nicer and more sympathetic character than Damon is.

Also, I see it more as Stefan is an addict type. The blood is like drugs and it makes him go insane basically. So it's not fully his personality when he is being a crazy vicious killer. It's not necessarily something he wants to do deep inside. Like alcoholics or druggies who get violent when they are high. Yet Damon clearly is in his right mind and still enjoying when he is viciously tormenting people. I have always just thought Stefan's issue is to be perceived more as a disease or mental disorder.

And at the end of the day, Julie Plec has said herself "Stefan, of all our heroes, is the straightest on the show".

SpencerFan · 11-30-2013, 05:44 PM

Caroline is my favorite character on the show and it hurts seeing so many spiteful comments from Damon stans...

She hasn't done anything wrong but VOICE her opinion. Every single character has been silenced already. Enough is enough, let other characters tell Elena that Damon is the absolute worst and that she has changed for the worst being with him...

Stefan just stood like a dumbass and said "whatever"... like seriously? We are supposed to believe that Stefan is also okay with Delena?... and him excusing Elena's actions just angers me.

(another reason to not hold Elena accountable for anything) ..

Bonnie has been silenced.
Jeremy has been silenced.
Stefan has been silenced.
Elena has been silenced.
Caroline is now the voice of reason on this show.

21:21 · 11-30-2013, 05:57 PM

omg the comments.

My fav one is "Damon didn't rape her. He used and abused her"
.......

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Fan Forum > General Discussion > Spoilers > The Vampire Diaries S&S #316: Stefan Salvatore - flawless saint or cruel killer? Discuss.