JusW

Re. the whole love Peyton all along thing.

I don't get it. Why do the writers have to make everything like NH? What is wrong with allowing BL and LP to be high school teens having fun and discovering love? Luke loved Brooke fair enough. Luke now loves Peyton, again fair enough. But to make it seem like either Brooke or Peyton was the one, and was meant to be - I mean like I said, I know completely where Luke is coming from with his idealized vision, but for all that I relate to the writer's vision of Luke - even I can see that like Rachel says - considering they're in High School, perhaps he hasn't met the one!!

Why do the writers put Luke in this postion by making his love mutually exclusive? He can have been in love with Brooke, but now he's not. How simple is that? Given, that they're in high school - that seems entirely believable and a hell of a lot more sympathetic portrayal of a character than him having found the one, and then finding another one!

shinobified

I do see where you are coming from also JusW. I dont think Lucas is a bad person per se. But the fact that he is looking on some idealized vision of love as you put it is what kinda turns me off of him. To me it was seem that you are completely correct there, but doesnt that kinda mean that if he is basing his idea of love on what he reads, and he has some idealisation, perhaps neither Brooke nor Peyton will actually ever be enough for him.

To me, the fact of the matter is that if you can chop and change your feelings that quickly, neither can actually be called real love. Real love is about loving one person, and not even considering anyone else. That is certainly not what he felt for Brooke and if it is what he feels for Peyton, then he has a funny way of showing it. One sudden realisation of love and making his life all about Peyton doesnt speak about love to me, love is small gestures, long-term gestures, making a person feel wanted and dating and proclaiming love for her best friend is not making Peyton feel wanted. The fact he can go back and forth between them so readily makes me think hes doesnt properly love either, and that doesnt make him a bad person. I just think he needs to grow up and learn to distance himself so he can actually work these things out, rather than acting immediately and fli flopping. Because matter of fact, if he loved either of them completely and wholly, the whole damned triangle wouldnt exist. Lucas is indecisive, not a bad person but in my eyes after everything he has put the two girls through, he deserves neither. I do agree with much of your post though, just my take on it.

shinobified

Didnt see your second post. I also agree. I think its incredibly unrealistic to portray either NH or BL or LP as soulmates. Both Nathan and Lucas have had about two proper relationships and OK NH have settled down but chances are Lucas may find someone he really does love and can completely devote himself to say, after high school! Im all for high school romances but its unrealistic to think Lucas wont go away to a bigger place, meet tons of new people and find "the one". The triangle is nothing but high school drama.

curlyhead

Personally, I can't see Peyton accepting Lucas' words as easily as Brooke did. At the end of season one, Peyton said to Lucas that "it's not about what you say; it's about you do." She already went through a bad relationship with Nathan in which he treated her like crap and then said, 'I'm sorry and she took him back." Lucas has stood by Peyton's side through a lot and she has seen him prove his love in actions. Right now, L/P are in the honeymoon phase and of course, she is going to glow with happiness when he says, "I love you," but if Lucas ever stated that he never loved Brooke or that he wasn't in love with her, I can't see Peyton believing those words. Peyton's called Luke on some of his crap in the past, so I have a feeling that she will do this again.

She probably could have said something more harsh since what you said is true. Lucas tried very hard with Brooke the second time. He was more comitted and he treated her pretty well. I loved Sophia's comment in the finale commentary during the argument. She pegged their relationship perfectly. I have to wonder what would have happened if Brooke hadn't broken up with Lucas first.

It seems like the show made Lucas switch roles with Nathan (which Peyton called him on), and Lucas suffered for his mistakes. After that, he really did try to be a good person and I think he is for the most part. But the show seemed to want to concentrate on the B/P break-up and the catfighting with that. Lucas still doesn't know why B/P stopped being friends.

I am excited about Brooke/Chase just because it seems like a different relationship for her. Plus they look sweet and hot together. I don't know if they are soulmates or anything, but I am willing to give them a try. If they're boring, oh, well. He's got to be better than the other guys in her life.

I do like L/P together a lot, but it took me a while actually. I used to post in the anti-Lucas thread and I screamed that he didn't deserve either girl. But he changed a lot for me, especially after watching how he took care of Haley at times and protected her. The L/P friendship scenes intrigued me too. At least they had actual dialogue. I loved how he helped her with Ellie in season 3. So, at this point, I love L/P and I squealed a little when they finally kissed in 4.09. I'm also excited for the reason of the season because we haven't really ever seen L/P as a couple before. If they get boring or if Lucas just feeds her the same old lines, then I might not like them. We'll see.

shinobified, I think there are a lot of people who feel the same way that you do actually. It hasn't been brought up as much lately, but the anti- Lucas sentiment has been harsh at times, just not lately.

leytonjunkie

I would really like to know which couple talks about prom next episode!

fetch

I agree Lucas isn't a bad guy and isn't doing these things out of bad intentions, but until he works out his feelings, he shouldn't be dating either girl.

JusW

Laura - I think you hit the nail on the head. Luke doesn't know what true love is at the moment. Perhaps because he has spent all his time with Brooke, or maybe he will find it with Peyton. I don't know. But if any writers are reading this - for goodness sake, stop making everything be about true love or destiny for Luke. He's in high school! Yes let him proclaim that he loves them. I get it. In high school, the word love is thrown around all the time - but to say that he's loved one person all along? That's ridiculous. I believe the LP relationship, but I also believe the BL one! Is that so hard for the writers to comprehend? Luke was in "love" with Brooke, and now he "loves" Peyton. Luke looking at things retrospectively may realise that he at a certain level may have always wanted to be with Peyton or may have had certain feelings for Peyton that he never allowed himself to explore, but why oh why can't the characters on the show just say it like that and have conversations where they use qualifiers and speak with a certain degree of erudition?

Luke is supposed to be a kick-ass writer for goodness sake. And we hear his thoughts via the voiceovers expressed so eloquently. Why then in actual conversation Luke (and every other character in Tree Hill) resorts to platitudes and cliches?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the writers and they still manage to keep me enchanted and enthralled, but is it too much to ask that these kids have normal conversations that reflect their intelligence?

Caliina

I would love if Lucas ended up with neither. I mean god theese kids are what? 18? They still have college, where they will meet new pepole! This is still just high school. And even tough I might be a BL shipper, and have never been a Peyton fan. I do think both girls can do better..sorry I do think so..

rose parade

I hate how Lucas is always calling the shots.

Caliina

I mean how on earth could the girls be happy without the guys. That's just craaazy talk

JusW

Re. the whole question of who deserves who is I think a difficult one. Sure one can say Luke doesn't deserve Brooke or Peyton. But at the same time, one could convincingly argue that Brooke, because of her own insecurities and self-esteem issues, having intentionally made him jump through hoops for her, could never be the girl for Luke, or that Peyton having indirectly caused the break-up of BL doesn't deserve Luke either.

When it boils down to it, when you're talking about a true, real and lasting love, neither one deserve the other. It's not about whether a person is worthy of your love. IMO, love is given unconditionally. You accept the other, and accept that person fully, warts and all. And you hope that the other person accepts you too. To have to prove yourself before you can be loved is not love.

same old story

I have a feeling it'll be somewhat like 3.12, though that episode only really showed and explored Brooke's fears of being alone and high school ending (which were never brought up again, of course), and not everyone else. Hopefully, that'll be different this time.

~annie~

I don't really feel that Lucas doesn't deserve either of the girls. I think the feelings he has are questionable because they change so often, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve them. The second time around, he really fought to be in that relationship with Brooke and he took a lot crap from her to make them happen. And just because he wasn't able to open up to her all the way, doesn't mean he's underserving of the relationship. Some people just have a hard time opening up, it doesn't make them wrong. It bothers me when people say that Lucas wasn't good to her the second time around because I feel there's no basis for it.

I know I'm way late on commenting on this issue, but yes. He saw her on the ground, sighed in what most would take as an annoyed, I can't believe I have to deal with this right now sort of way, and the next we saw of her, she was at Peyton's. Also, he couldn't have just kicked Brooke out of the party. It was at his house, but it was his parents' party, and they combined with Brooke's parents would have had a problem with that. And lastly, when Brooke came to talk to Nathan about fixing things with him and Haley, he seemed annoyed with her at best, giving her a "Whatever." The fact that he went on the date has more to do with the fact that Brooke told him Haley would be waiting, and after she gave him the brush off that night, he was probably pretty surprised, than trust that Brooke was looking out for him.

And I believe it was Mal that said it, but this happened like two years ago for N//B and according to sources, we get a flashback of them deciding to hide it from Peyton. That's them dealing with it. That's their closure. Of all the relationships this effects, they are the one that it doesn't change things for. They decided it meant nothing back then, and sex tape popping up doesn't suddenly make it mean something. They both should be much more focused on fixing things with Peyton and Haley, and to a lesser extent, Lucas.

This entire thing is really only going to be focused on for about two episodes. When you factor in that prom is taking place and psycho!Derek is showing back up, and that it directly effects BP, NP, BH, and NH, and indirectly effects all of Lucas' relationships with those people, I think a heart to heart for closure that N//B already has is the least important conversation that needs to be had.

Susan, for your order of relationships getting fixed, I don't see BP being the first because this is a betrayal. Even if it was so long ago, and there is the technicality that N//P were split at the time, it is a very small technicality, and Peyton easily has the right to be pissed and hurt that Brooke has put her through the ringer for so long over something that she basically did herself.

shiftmyshape

Sorry to bring up an ancient topic - but when I said I wanted an N/B scene, I was speaking out of my frustration to their non-existant relationship. When I say that, I don't mean I want them BFF. I want them to clearly establish something. Whether it be they hate each other, or are good friends I honestly don't care. But they're written inconsistantly. It's like they have scenes for filler at times and go seasons without any moments. Almost as inconsistant as the BLP triangle and Brooke's character.

One thing I would really like to see out of this sex tape storyline, is real communication and depth into the relationships that might be fractured. I do not want it to be brushed under the rug when the explanations are made in 4.15. I want angst, and heart. Especially with B/H and N/H. I can't express how much I've been waiting for a meaningful exchange between these two relationships.
That would be perfect, Susan.

broken crown

Well, I do agree that Peyton will feel betrayed by the revelation, I honestly think her first thoughts will be that Brooke slept with Nathan when he was with Haley, not with her. When she gets the details, I think she'll be upset...but I think she'll also try to help Nathan patch things up with Haley.

If anything this storyline will make Brooke look really disloyal, especially combined with the test reveal as well.