azure angel

Ouch, eotw but every Max/Liz scene it's so emotional you know

Roswell 10/2/00

I still tear up over that scene!

Today is December 30th and you know what that means Happy Birthday Jason Behr! Wishing you much happiness and success!

azure angel

Happy Birthday Jason

Amaranto

EOTW and departure kills me

Jasper1975

To me the dance in End of the World isn't about Max and Liz. It's a vessel for Liz sure, but for Max and Liz, no. Now the "I Shall Believe" one of my alltime favorites that I forever will associate with Roswell...it's all about warning fans not to give up on Max and Liz, that eventually it will work out.

It's very emotional sure, especially as Liz is coming to terms with her decision, and to have him vanish makes it all more real.

But as a essential moment, it's just not quite there for me.

End of the World was such a epic fiasco... I have only began to be able to watch that episode. Still can't wait Heart Be Mine (the prom one). Even if it's the kiss, I still can't watch Max fall into Tess's trap..

Even if they had aired "Off the Menu" like it should have been aired, things in the storyline would make better sense...

But still....

azure angel

^I agree, I hated the way they use Liz for max / tess benefit.

Jasper1975

But the most annoying thing is if you watch the season. It doesn't play like they were going to do Max and Tess when they did. Even with End of the World, that seemed like a temporary distraction to cause angst for Max and Liz, and have their friendship torn apart so he could be seduce by the Dupes and go to New York with things with tense with both Liz and Isabel due to Isabel dealing with killing Whittaker and her learning the essence of Vilandra. Then Liz would save his butt in New York, and that would help repair their friendship (at least).

With Christmas that would build them up, and even the temptation of Sean Deluca seemed to bring back the jealousy in Max. And Vegas was like the cream on the top...like the future would be about the truth of Future Max's mission...

Everything after Vegas was a 180 from the season that was playing up to it. And clear sign when they decided to kill of Alex, and write out Colin that they decided to go with a big bang type storyline that only had a "slight" play with the rest of the season...

Now I can spin it. That they needed to rebuild Max and Liz after "End of the World" to tear them back down after Vegas. But the arc just doesn't jive...Even if I love the storyline for it's twisted emotions in Max and Liz. I don't like how Max behaved, but the war between them was brutal, and showed how much they were meant to be...

Season 3 for it's flaws. You can view the season as a cohesive story arc... Sure some of it could be expanded, or done better but unless Season 2, you didn't have a left turn in the middle that changes the whole complexity of the season.

They really did seem like they were planning on doing Kyle and Tess... Only to turn that around with that mind warp...

I can spin that Tess needed to get the gang's trust to betray them. Even if she hadn't meant for Alex to die, but her methods had collateral damage that she didn't intend, but still provoked. And that is why Jim went on a country singer mid life crisis journey in Season before starting the climb back at the Sheriff's department was because of the final betrayal of Tess...

Tess used his own son against the gang. And was treated like a daughter to him. And she goes and betrays that, and that totally put him into a spiral.

azure angel

Max saw a vision of them marrying in Las Vegas, and he did not wonder about that? I do not think so!

What always amuses me is that some people only get indignated with departure, but the inconsistencies started long before lol

Jasper1975

I think he probably rationalize the vision as it's Vegas. And dreams can come true. And he was in a angsty period with Liz at the time... And maybe a moment to tell him to go back to Liz... Which he did...

She almost caved... I really do think that that is where the story was going...Going home, and having to deal with what she brought with Future Max... With the vision as a clue...

Not how 180 it turned with Max actually turning to Tess (even if he was embracing his alien side, and learning more about his alien life) and added on with the grief over Alex.

Max was becoming jealous over Liz and Sean. And he wanted Liz so much in Vegas. And you tell me he would forget that...even if they were both acting under grief and burden due to Alex's death...

Just too odd...

azure angel

The change of direction was obvious but fundamentally abrupt.

Jasper1975

They didn't want to admit it. But it was almost like he was under mind control from Tess, added with the burden and grief over Alex...it was a toxic combination. He was told by Brody aka Larek in Off the Menu that he and Tess was so in love on Antar if you take that as the logic stepping off point that takes you to prom, and the Alex's death and the all hell breaking loose with the investigation.

But they had to postpone airing Off the Menu due to the sensitive subject matter due to a real life similar incident but they had to air it because it had the major clue that provided Liz the way to find out Tess was the killer. The mindwarp Tess put Amy under to forget Off the Menu.

The tapping of fingers.

I do think Max and Liz needed all they went through to get to the point where they could commit at 18, and know they were ready given all that was different about them.

But it was a hell of a road. And some of the obstacles were extreme.

When Liz told him to wake up. And he slept with Tess, he was almost like under control of Tess until she got him to sleep with her, and then he was back to his old self...

Amaranto

And the worst thing is that the solution was so simple ... mindward. But they decided to go down difficult road just to not be able to face it really.

btw


guys

Jasper1975

I think they didn't like the implication if they had told the truth that Max was really under a mindwarp. He already had been once before in Season 1, and basically forced to kiss her not knowing his own mind...She blatantly played with his mind before she was found out to be who she was...

So if they completely went there, and if he slept with her not of his own power. He was already weak from the fight with Liz in which their friendship again was severed, but this time with more brutal words and fighting... He was weak, and he fell into her clutches...

So for it to not be of his mind, it had more problematic implications...

They should have just simplified and said that Tess lied about the baby, and it wasn't Max. Have the sex be real. Because really the sex was consequences for both Max and Liz's actions throughout the year, and especially in the wake of Alex's death... Have the baby's paternity be a lie...

Mindwarp was already a destructive power and they were playing a fine line with it.

SO I don't think they wanted to go all in on the idea he was under a mindwarp!

It was fine to say Amy was due to Off the Menu. But for Max who actually does sleep with Tess, it was little more blurring...

Amaranto

To this day I can not believe they were there - the baby plot. It was more than obvious that it was going to be a resounding failure.

Damocles

Happy new year guys!