sunnykerr

I just don't think splitting hairs is gonna get her done.

That's just the opinion of this Canadian, who lives in a land where gay marriage is well established and the world didn't end.

Cristofle

Well, the federal government IS currently saying gay marriage is wrong, by virtue of DOMA. I'd be more than happy for that unconstitutional nonsense to get repealed. It's been said over and over and over- no one here, or much of anywhere, who believes gay marriage should be legal cares if people personally think it's wrong. That's their issue. But the second you VOTE or publicly support things such as DOMA, it no longer simply a personal opinion but an act of oppression against an entire group of people struggling for basic civil rights (there's no point arguing whether or not marriage is a civil right in the US, because the Supreme Court has long since declared that it is. It is based on our legal system).

Gray Ghost

Again, the federal government has no right defining marriage and telling Americans what is right and wrong when it comes to marriage. You can allow gay marriage and straight marriage but there should be no mention of picking a side on the issue.


Obama has been apathetic toward gay marriage and I would love to see gay voters get their revenge against him at the polls in November by voting for Gary Johnson or some candidate that actually gave a crap about gay people.

And don't give me this crap, "oh well, at least Obama has helped gay people a little". That tone should offend gay people. Settling for something doesn't seem like it's the message of the gay movement and cause.


Obama should be called out on his apathy and direspect toward gay people especially on the issue of gay marriage. He hasn't even done anything toward the progress of civil unions for gay couples. Gay couples are basically in the same predicament they were when Bush was president proving another similarity between Obama and Bush.

TheAngel

Why would I waste my vote on someone who isn't going to win by any stretch of the imagination? I'd rather have a moderate president who has made some progress with gay rights than have a republican president who is going to take ten giant steps backwards.

And no, the federal government shouldn't define marriage, but they do, so lets get past that part of the argument, shall we.

Gray Ghost

Sunnykerr, thanks for putting a smile on my face.


So you would rather pick a person that has a better chance of winning than a person who you agree with more on the issues? That's a very shallow way of thinking but it's your vote.

Other than ending Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Obama has done nothing for gay Americans. He hasn't even discussed civil unions. He is a joke when it comes to gay rights. He needs to be called out on it and people need to stop giving him pass on it. Evil Republican Ron Paul says that gay people can do whatever they want and get married as long as they don't impose their view of marriage on him. Evil Ron Paul has even said that marriage is a contract and he has no problem with governments protecting and recognizing gay marriage(contracts). And don't give me this bull about Ron Paul hating gay people because I show you video link after video link where he defends a human being's right to sleep with whomever they want and have whatever lifestyle they want as long as they don't hurt anyone or impose their views on him or others.


Wake up!

Cristofle

Well, he also has said his administration will not defend DOMA as he believes it is unconstitutional, and when NOT ONE Republican candidate defended gay soldiers being booed at a debate- including Ron Paul- he called that a disgrace. No pro-LGBT rights person is saying Obama is perfect on this issue. In fact, when he was campaigning in 2008, I thought it was his weakest point (albeit better than John "WE CANNOT REPEAL DADT!!!!" McCain). I still don't think it's one of his stronger points. I think he's just better than the other guy, in this case Romney.

sunnykerr

I think it's not hard to look better than John McCain on same-sex rights.

But maybe that's just me.

Honestly, I really don't see what the big deal is here. You either believe in equality before the law or you don't.

At this point, politicians who oppose gay marriage openly have got to be thinking more about catering to conservative constituents more than anything else because you would think someone in their position would have the legal knowledge to understand precisely why same-sex marriage ought to be legal.

Gray Ghost

Other than Don't Ask, Don't Tell ending, what has Obama and his administration done for homosexuals in America?


Ron Paul said it best

“If you want to define it [marriage] one way and me another, that sounds like a first amendment issue. Why should I try to convince you of my definition? Or why do I want someone else to impose their ideas on me and make me accept their definition? So I want the government out. If you're going to have government under the constitution, the states have a lot more authority than the federal government has to define it. I'd rather see it be outside of government and then we would not be arguing about this.”


I give props to Gary Johnson, too.

“As a believer in individual freedom and keeping government out of personal lives, I simply cannot find a legitimate justification for federal laws, such as the Defense of Marriage Act, which 'define' marriage. That definition should be left to religions and individuals – not government. Government's role when it comes to marriage is one of granting benefits and rights to couples who choose to enter into a marriage 'contract.' As I have examined this issue, consulted with folks on all sides, and viewed it through the lens of individual freedom and equal rights, it has become clear to me that denying those rights and benefits to gay couples is discrimination, plain and simple,”

Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are more tolerant on gay marriage than Obama is yet Obama supporters think Obama is awesome on gay issues especially gay marriage. The ignorance and denial are mind boggling.

sunnykerr

^ Other than what he's done, what has Obama done?

That's an interesting way of questioning his record. "Take away what he has done, show me what he's done."

Tee-hee. That cracks me up.

Not for nothing, though, if there are Obama supporters who think he's nothing short of perfect on same-sex rights... I've never heard or met them, period, let alone on this board.

Gray Ghost

Step up and answer the question, please. If you're going to support Obama, at least be familiar with the man's record and accomplishments. You're really ignorant and basically a bandwagon fan if you just support Obama or anyone else if it's the trendy or cool thing to do.

Obama supporters are more in denial than Bush supporters ever were. That is hilarious and just classic.

You have two Republicans(Johnson and Paul) that are more open minded and tolerant over gay marriage than a so-called liberal Democrat president. Even with that truth, Obama supporters still believe in the fantasy that their guy is a champion for gay rights and gay marriage.

Obama has been on record for saying that he does not support gay marriage. I know he has said that his view on the issue is evolving but that's not good enough.
Even crazy Ron Paul has said that gay people can do whatever they want as long as they don't impose their views on him and vice versa. Ron Paul personally believes that marriage is between a man and a woman but if two gay people want to have a marriage contract, they can and they can call it whatever they want.


The problem with gay marriage isn't about making it legal. Most people are cool with that. It's about imposing views on others that people don't like. Gay people can get married and have the same rights as straight couples, just don't force other people to accept it or force a definition of it. The federal government has no right or authority to define something like that. It can be legal for gay and straight couples, but don't say if one side is right and the other is wrong.

sunnykerr

That was me answering your question, Jacob.

Mind you, I'm not a U.S. citizen. I don't live there. So to count me as either an Obama supporter or a Bush basher or whatever else you want to call me... is a bit of fictional thinking. I don't have a horse in this race. I'm merely observing things from the outside.

At the end of the day, I do think it won't matter whether the president, whomever that might be, personally supports gay rights or not. It seems like it'll be a decision made by the courts more than anything else. Which is as it should be. The legislature may set the agenda, but it's up to the judiciary to interpret the laws, so that's the branch of government that'll decide if the 14th Amendment means gay people are entitled to marital equality.

The problem about gay marriage is entirely about making it legal. There's a whole whack of heterosexual marriages out there that people don't approve of, but it's none of their business at the end of the day. The same should apply to gay marriage.

Gray Ghost

Gay marriage can and should be legal nationwide. The federal government should just not have any say on the morality and definition of marriage. That should be left up to the citizens and thinkers of our time.
Don't let the federal government say that heterosexual marriage is right or wrong and the same goes for gay marriage.

Avatar

That seems mutually exclusive to me. If gay marriage should be legal, then how can the federal government not define marriage?

Gray Ghost

The federal government should not flat out say "this is what marriage is".
Government has no right to tell its citizen how to think on the morality of marriage. Politicians should also not be answering questions on the morality of gay marriage and homosexuality because their opinions have no purpose or place in any political discussion.

TheAngel

Well, sure, that would be great. But it isn't going to happen. At least, not in this century. So why not talk about reality, which is that, there are people out there who don't agree with gay marriage. There are politicians who are against gay marriage and are trying to have marriage Constitutionally defined as between a man and a woman. In my opinion, this is against the 14th Amendment. I don't care what the Bible says, I'm not a Christian. I'm an American citizen and the constitution says that I'm entitled to equal rights under the law. If heterosexuals have the right to get married then so do I. And let's not argue the semantics of the word "right" vs "privileged" because every heterosexual couple in the US can get married.