[quaist]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) He's a 30-year-old over-priveleged brat. Sooner or later, though, it'll dawn on all of them that this can't go anywhere.

Word! I just hope for the North Koreans that it's rather sooner than later.

[sunnykerr]

Okay, so not that the North Korean situation is suddenly over or not important, but as it's not going anywhere any time soon...

Frantic search for survivors after Dhaka building collapse A frantic search for survivors is under way at a building outside the Bangladeshi capital, Dhaka, which collapsed, killing at least 96 people. Rescue workers with drilling machines are working with volunteers, some using their bare hands, to try to free survivors - some heard crying out. Tens of thousands of weeping family members are gathered at the site. The disaster has prompted questions over Bangladesh's chronically poor safety standards. Bangladesh has one of the largest garment industries in the world, providing cheap clothing for major Western retailers which benefit from its widespread low-cost labour. Police said the factory owners had ignored warnings not to allow their workers into the building after cracks were noticed on Tuesday - cracks which, according to reports, had even attracted the interest of local news stations. The owners of the factory are now said to have gone into hiding. Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has announced a national day of mourning on Thursday in memory of the victims. 'Like a pancake' According to one firefighter, some 2,000 people were in the Rana Plaza building in Savar, some 30km (20 miles) outside Dhaka, when it collapsed suddenly on Wednesday morning. Firefighters and soldiers joined volunteers in the effort to locate survivors in the mangled wreckage of concrete and steel. "I heard them cry. We can't leave them behind this way," fire official Abul Khayer told AP news agency. Lengths of textile that were earlier being cut into garments - many destined for Western consumers - were now being used as makeshift slides to evacuate survivors and corpses. Mosammat Khursida wailed as she looked for her husband, AP reported. "He came to work in the morning. I can't find him," she said. "I don't know where he is. He does not pick up his phone." Lines of relatives filed by numbered bodies of victims, looking for their family members. Local hospitals were overwhelmed with a reported 1,000 people injured. Survivors said the building had collapsed suddenly, without warning. "It became completely dark on this side," a witness said. "There was a lot of dust from the collapsing debris, so we ran downstairs. When we came out we saw the whole building collapsed." Only the ground floor of the building remained intact, officials said. "The whole building collapsed like a pancake within minutes. Most workers did not have any chance to escape," national fire department chief Ahmed Ali told AFP news agency.

Full article

At the site, someone explained what must be obvious to some but wasn't for me.

Which is that conditions are poor because these sweatshops only get business if they keep their prices dirt poor. So, less money comes in and the conditions are bad. And the whole thing is justified by the need ot have some form of an economy going and this is the one they've hit on.

This is also the city in which that garnment factory fired killed a hundred or so workers a while back. (Side note: Aren't I a regular genius with the details, huh?)

In other words, as horrible as it is for us, who live in easier circumstances, to contemplate, this system is not going anywhere any time soon. Unless we're all suddenly willing to pay more for clothes... in this economy.

[quaist]

^ tragic incident indeed.

Meanwhile in North Korea, an American fears for his freedom and possibly life:

American Faces Charges in North Korea SEOUL, South Korea — An American tour operator who crossed into North Korea from China last year is facing indictment on charges that he carried out hostile acts against the North’s government, the Korean Central News Agency said on Saturday. The tour operator, Kenneth Bae, a Korean-American who lived in Washington State, traveled with a group of businessmen in November from Yanji, China, to the North Korean Special Economic Zone of Rason, where he was arrested. His detention comes as American relations with North Korea have worsened considerably in recent months over the North’s detonation of a nuclear device and missile testing. North Korea has often used the plight of detained Americans as a bargaining chip in its dealings with Washington. In January, Bill Richardson, the former American ambassador to the United Nations, tried to see Mr. Bae but was rebuffed. Mr. Bae is the sixth American detained by North Korea since 2009, but he is facing the gravest charges. During investigations, Mr. Bae “admitted his criminal plot to overthrow our republic out of hostility,” the North Korean news agency said. It added that his crime was “clearly substantiated by evidence.” Under the North’s criminal code, the maximum punishment for such a crime is the death penalty. The Associated Press, which has a bureau in the North Korean capital, Pyongyang, previously quoted a North Korean official as saying that Mr. Bae faced harsh punishment and possibly the death penalty over the accusations of trying to overthrow the government. The North Korean news agency did not say when Mr. Bae’s trial would be held. North Korea said the criminal investigation in the case was over. Under the criminal code of North Korea, prosecutors are required to file their formal indictment within 10 days of the completion of the investigation. Then a court rules on the case within 25 days. The accused in the North have only a single chance to appeal their verdict. But North Korea indicated on Saturday that Mr. Bae would not be allowed such a chance because his case was handled directly by the country’s supreme court. In December, when North Korea officially confirmed Mr. Bae’s detention, it said he was arrested on charges of committing “hostile acts” against North Korea, a lesser crime than a plot to “overthrow” the county. It said he had been allowed to meet with officials from the Swedish Embassy in Pyongyang, which intervenes on Washington’s behalf on issues involving American citizens in North Korea. Washington has no diplomatic ties with North Korea.

Of course, the indictment's totally ridiculous... There's just to hope that diplomats will be able to get him out -- somehow.

[sunnykerr]

Damn.

This could be the spark that ignites something more serious.

Or it's not, and they're letting a citizen rot in some North Korean jail.

Either way, this is bad.

[quaist]

It is. The only thing we can do right now is wait and see how things unfold for this poor man who's gotten into something that's not his fault at all.

[sunnykerr]

The best-case scenario is where this is an opening for the U.S. to open some deeply back-channel discussion with the North Korean leadership.

I don't know how feasible or credible this is.

I'm just saying it's a scenario.

[quaist]

If they manage do a good job with diplomatic maneuvering, I suppose that's a possibility. And it would simultaneously be the best outcome for that man as well.

[sunnykerr]

Either way, there's something wrong when international politics hinge on the situation of one man.

Basically, his main crime seems to be that he's an American citizen.

North Korea is so uniquely crazy that I even doubt whether he was caught on North Korean soil, though of course that's always a possibility.

[quaist]

For all I know, he was caught on North Korean soil.

But it wouldn't be that unusual for them to kidnap people outside of their own borders, would it? I vaguely remember hearing about them abducting a South Korean actress or something like that.

[sunnykerr]

^ It certainly wouldn't be the first time North Korea has disrespected borders, though I don't have a ready example to back myself here.

Meanwhile, an update on the Bangladeshi collapse:

Collapsed Bangladesh building owner may face 7 years in jail SAVAR, Bangladesh -- A Bangladesh court on Monday gave police 15 days to interrogate the owner of a building that collapsed last week, killing at least 382 people, as rescuers used heavy machinery to cut through the destroyed structure after giving up hopes of finding any more survivors. Mohammed Sohel Rana, who was arrested Sunday as he tried to flee to India, will be held for questioning on charges of negligence, illegal construction and forcing workers to join work. His father, Abdul Khaleque, was also arrested on suspicion of aiding Rana to force people to work in a dangerous building. The illegally constructed, 8-storey Rana Plaza collapsed in a heap Wednesday morning as thousands of people worked inside in five garment factories. About 2,500 survivors have been accounted for. Rana was brought to the Dhaka Metropolitan Magistrate's Court in a bullet-proof vest, and led away to an unknown detention place after the magistrate granted a police request to hold him longer before filing formal charges. The crimes he is accused of carry a maximum punishment of seven years. More charges could be added later.

Full article

Honestly, I couldn't fault his father for trying to get his son out of there.

I don't have ANY sympathy for Mr Rana, but it does sound like his life is in danger and I would imagine it'd be natural for a parent to try and do what they can.

At the same time, if it turns out that the father truly was an accomplice to all of Mr Rana's crimes? I hope the father is also prosecuted.

[quaist]

^ I think everything that could go wrong, went wrong in that case

There's an update on the fate of the American who got arrested in North Korea as well: North Korea sentences American to 15 years

There's still to hope that they can get some diplomat in to get him out. Because 15 years in a North Korean prison camp under hard labor is pretty much equivalent to a death sentence, at least as far as I know.

[sunnykerr]

Oh, I'm right there with you on the 15-year sentence.

A propos of nothing in particular, that's the second story you've scooped me on today.

But, yeah. 15 years of hard labour is not a good thing. I don't know that it's the sort of thing one can actually survive, though of course the point of North Korea is that nobody knows.

Again, the only possible ray of light here is if this harsh sentence leads to diplomatic reaction to save this poor man from his fate.

That's assuming he's not some CIA agent.

I don't mean to sound completely crazy. I'm just saying there are CIA agents and they go in dangerous places and presumably some of them don't get out.

[quaist]

You don't sound crazy at all, it sounds perfectly reasonable to me that the US would send in CIA agents to North Korea. Especially after all we've heard about their nuclear program and threatening rhetoric lately.

But don't you think that we wouldn't hear anything about that man's fate if he really were one? I guess they'd just cover everything up then. Or maybe that's just my thinking...

[sunnykerr]

Well, at the risk of sounding even crazier... maybe we're hearing about it because the CIA is hiding this man in plain sight, so to speak.

He got caught. Assuming my crazy scenario were true (and I'm mostly of the mind that you made excellent points as to why it can't possibly be true), if it didn't come out over here, the North Koreans would definitely know they have their hands on an operative. And that could mean very dangerous things both for the man in question and the supposed intelligence he possesses.

But that's all crazy talk.

He's more than likely just a normal man, caught in the wrong place and by the wrong freaking country.

I really hope they get him out of there, because fifteen years of hard labour is essentially a death sentence.

[quaist]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) Assuming my crazy scenario were true (and I'm mostly of the mind that you made excellent points as to why it can't possibly be true), if it didn't come out over here, the North Koreans would definitely know they have their hands on an operative. And that could mean very dangerous things both for the man in question and the supposed intelligence he possesses.

That might well be, I hadn't thought of that possibility. I guess we'll never know, though.