Burning Up A Sun

Oh I haven't seen it.

I know there were some like that on SMG but I wasn't there when the threads were started.

Do you think Angelus would have loved Buffy if he had chosen to? Would she have let him?

How-very-girl629

Wow, that title is ballsy.


ITA. I've never understood the idea that Spike loved Buffy more because he loved her without a soul. He was a completely different type of vampire than Angelus, he was always more humane and more emotional. Probably because when Liam was turned he repressing his own emotional side, the demon was a lot harsher. William on the other hand was a "bloody" awful poet who was bitten by Drusilla in a much more romantic way.

I just don't get comparing strength of love in general. I don't think Angel loved Buffy more because he gave up his humanity. I don't think it's something that can be measured in that way.


And I doubt Angelus ever would have loved Buffy. But he was clearly fascinated by her.

ashleyt

I can read BAus fics and can talk about them but are they shippable? I don't think so. Let's be real folks, Angelus is not willing to be a person in a relationship. He's more of the master/slave type. I love Buffy way too much for her to be stuck in that type of relationship.

Buffy might have been willing in the beginning because of the events in Surprise but after S2, there's no way she'd be willing to give him the chance. I think she knows that Angelus is pure evil and isn't willing to change.

How-very-girl629

Yeah. BAus are interesting to think about, but it would have destroyed Buffy.


Angelus was sickened by emotions, so I just can't see it.

ashleyt

It would only work if Angelus was willing to change and he lacks the dimensions and layers (on the shows) for me to be able to see that. If they gave him the chance to change and evolve I might have a different view.

MelanieErdelyi

To be honest I will say right now I am the one who did that title. And I won't apologize for it either. I did NOT however do it to provoke Bangels or anyone else. I am really just trying to say that after he fell in love with her he would never intentionally hurt her, even before he got his soul. yes, you can bring up the AR if you want. But then you will never hear the end of that from me. Especially since that was because he was not suited emotionally to handle what happened between them in s6. And after that he sought out his soul for her. Not getting cursed with it, not needing to, but for her because he loved her and he hurt her. And that doesn't fit as a title. I know it seemed bad. And I guess I will contradict myself a little by apologizing to anyone who is that offended by it. It was just there. And I am not pointing fingers but people have said some pretty awful stuff about SB and SB shippers... So any underlying insult in that title is mild at best.

To be honest, I can't say I though Angelus loved Buffy. And I would share my deeper thoughts on that matter but there are BAers here and I don't want to offend. I am simply explaining my reasoning and I hope you understand. I am also not saying Spike loved her more cause he loved her without I soul. I am meaning exactly what I said. He loved her. Soul or no.

Also, I don't want to create drama. Nor do I need more in my life. That is what I have high school for.

ashleyt

Uh when you end Spike with ous (or us) you are intentionally comparing him with Angel/Angelus. If the title had said that he loved her with or without a soul that would have different. And even in your response you had to mention that Spike intentionally sought out a soul instead of being cursed with one which was not necessary.

Look the bottom line is that we like to think that this is a safe place where everyone is allowed to have an opinion without becoming offensive towards to others. And if issues do arise, we're all level headed enough to know that the person was not intentionally offensive.

MelanieErdelyi

Okay, I get it. Maybe I did compare them. But can anyone honestly say on either side of the shipper wheel that they don't compare them? It is what it is. I was just saying my point and I thought it was necessary. Not to say "Angel is bad cause he can't do that" but more "Spike would do that for her" alright? My mind works differently from other peoples. And I guess some of my reasoning needs to be explained. Even my explanations need to be explained. I am sorry, alright. But I am not changing what I said. Or how I feel on the matter. Look, if it gets out of hand I will change the damn title, but it doesn't have to be such a big deal to have even brought it up in the first place. I am also at a very fragile stage in my life where I tend to say things, mainly things I actually mean, without thinking how they will be received. I wish I could change that. I can't.

ashleyt

So basically, you'll continue to be offensive to people you have no idea about based on the fact that they love a couple you hate? You'll also continue to judge all people who ship that couple based on what you've read from some of them? And if you've offended someone intentionally, it's okay because of RL?

Okay. I'm finished having this conversation then.

MelanieErdelyi

That is not what I said. I need to reel myself back a bit I am sorry okay. I did not excuse my actions. I only supplied reasoning behind them. I did not judge anyone. And I will not. And if I keep apologizing for having an opinion I am now making myself feel like crap. So here goes. Sorry. There. I am trying to make things better and I guess I just can't...

It's too bad. I was hoping I could be done with this after the first post...

Spuffy at heart

Well this title is not really that hurtful like the ones I did read from B/A titles. Sorry, but to use a title like: "Angel didn´t need to rape Buffy to let her feel him inside" is such the meanest title ever. How about is it to reading comments like Spuffys want to be rapen if we ship them? Now that goes personal, now that hurts very much! I know you didn´t it, but after reading so much hurtful comments that even goes personal we came to a place where we will stand up for things that always brought up against Spuffy or Spike. Not the show let us compare them, fans that just don´t accept that it´s only fictional characters and we ship B/S despite the AR. Noone did bash Angel, some did explain why they compare both characters. To be fair it doesn´t matter who´s better Angel or Spike, who´t the better for Buffy. For me it isn´t a reason to ship Buffy with Spike just because he´s better. I ship their realationship. I never read so many anti comments about Bangel like about Spuffy, and then something that mean.

Callace

Does anyone else feel like we have been down this road enough times to tire out of it?

Melanie, I think Nat knew why you did it already, but that didn't make it hurt less. For future titles, I think it is wise to follow the rule of never making references to anyone who the thread is not about. I understand that you meant no harm But if you follow this rule that will get clearer. ( and the statement in the title no less true)

ashleyt

Never mind.

Callace

Ok But ITA, with all of that

And another thing. the reasoning that some has come with here, that "they do it, so then we have to too" annoys me all the more than anything. So what? Two wrongs dont make a right! (when we discuss these things some times, it nearly feels like we are turning into the rivalling vampires themselves, and I can hear Buffy's voice in the background, with "what are you, twelve?!") We are here together, so let's all try to show each others the respect we deserve (and point it out to those who arent, preferably by PM, that or via the mods, and, if necessary, MMs) if we feel it necessary, instead of risking to end up with a vendetta. We are all of us too good for that

MelanieErdelyi

Alright. So maybe I shouldn't have brought it up. I am sorry everyone. For any offense or drama I have stirred up. I will be more careful in the future.

Now that that is covered... Can't we all just hug?

I have also changed the title to be a little more friendly.

Also, Kudos to you if you get my obscure "Commentary! The Musical" reference.