sum1

It's about time that pathetic piece of crap had an unappreciation thread. The slayer without a soul needs to be bashed. Go to hell Faith, you revolting reject!

Ok, so here we've got a totally lame character who a lot of people think is cool. What's cool about her? She's a weak-spirited idiot who puts on a big loud show to hide her weakness. She's an empty swaggerer. She reminds me of Ana Lucia on Lost, just more smug and ****ty.

Faith is a coward. In her first ep she's running to Sunnydale to get away from her enemies and when they come to Sunnydale she doesn't want to face them, she just wants to run away. She only stands up to them when Buffy shows her what courage is like. Faith likes a fight when she's got the upper hand, like beating on some vamp who's weaker than her. Facing the likes of Kakistos has her pissing in her pants. She'd much rather murder some poor harmless old scientist.

She's a coward in another way too. She won't face up to her own conscience. Look at how she acted over killing the mayor's assistant. She didn't want to face responsibilty, she ran away from it and denied it. Coward. Faith is all about running away from herself. That's what all her big loud show is about. She plays party girl and loud swaggering thug so she doesn't have to face herself and face responsibility. Her pretence of being vigorous and alive is a frantic attempt to get away from responsibility, from herself, from reality and from maturity.

In every way Faith is a coward hiding behind a big loud show. She's not strong or tough, she's immature, weak and cowardly. Contemptible.

And all this "poor Faith" crap, where's the humanity in her? I don't see it. She didn't GO bad, she started out that way, it just manifested more later. It's there from the start. After her first onscreen fight she sneers sarcastically at Buffy, thanking Buffy for "help" when she doesn't mean it. The vibe is very negative. The pure nastiness of Faith comes out very clearly there. In the same ep, when Buffy is being mobbed by vampires and might need help to stay alive, Faith shows no interest in helping, instead she's taking her time getting her sadistic kicks from beating a vamp to pulp rather than just killing it. She couldn't care less what happens to Buffy and she doesn't kill vamps out of duty or principle, she kills them because it turns her on, because she gets a kick out of hurting something.

Later, before she's gone rogue or joined the Mayor, she tries teaching Buffy a take-what-you-want philosophy and she makes it clear she feels slayers are better than other people and that laws and right and wrong don't apply to slayers. When she accidentally kills a guy she's not interested in responsibility or guilt, she's all I-don't-care. And then she's happy to try to frame Buffy for the killing.

This is somebody who was bad from the beginning and only got worse. After framing Buffy for the killing didn't work, she goes to the Mayor and she's showing her true colors there, but really her true colors were quite evident from the start.

This is a totally unsympathetic person, a heartless, selfish, self-serving little creep who cares about nobody but herself and who'll do whatever it takes to serve her own purposes.

Why the hell should I feel for a person like this? I certainly don't find myself feeling any sympathy for her.

And as for her going nuts and reforming (Buffy season 4, Angel season 1), that whole storyline was bunk. It was forced and artificial and I never bought it in the slightest.

But I guess it was easier for her to go into jail than stay out of jail and face the Watchers council's next strike team (probably a lot bigger this time). Obviously her being in jail satisfied them, because they don't seem to have come after her again. She escaped Watcher justice by accepting state justice.

When she returned in season 7 of Buffy and season 4 of Angel she was a less convincing character, blander than before, and she clearly enjoyed being treated like a hero and getting to play the part (not to mention pushing around Dawn and Connor). But not for one moment did I trust her and I expect she'll be back to her old ways soon enough. Watch your back, Buffy.

In season 7 of Buffy she came across as such a lazy-sprited slob, she earned contempt from me in a whole new way. I really could have done without her return.

And what the hell is this about her being oh so hot? How the HELL is she hot? I'm so SICK of people acting like there's something wrong with you if you don't find that piece of sewer slime hot.

One of the things I hate most about Faith is how she's all about misuse of great power. I hate misuse of power. Buffy is somebody who has power and tries to use it responsibly, Faith abuses hers. And it's like there's supposed to be something cool about this selfish little coward abusing great power. There's nothing cool about it at all.

I'm no fan of Dushku's performance either. Maybe if she'd done a better job it'd have been more possible for feel some sort of sympathy for Faith.

All in all Faith is a disgusting worthless character who I wish was never on the show. And why the HELL did she have to wake up from that coma?

sum1

Having added my long Faith rant into the first post I can take it out of this post.

Spikes Angel

haha haha so its pretty obvious you hate her.

I don't hate Faith, but I don't care about her either.

sum1

It IS?
You SHOULD hate her.

Hell on Heels

Faith was a interesting character. In a way I'm glad they made her the opposite of Buffy...I would have been really pissed had she showed up just like Buffy and tried to take her thunder so to speak in a more like Buffy form.

I hated Faith alot when she first popped up. I still don't exactly 'like' her cause Buffy is the true slayer in my eyes and the show had the habit of pitting them against each other. You were left with little choice but to choose between them and Buffy is the popular choice for many reasons. I mean, in my eyes it was Buffy's show.

And while I understand and agree with all the reasons why you dislike her, I also see the lost little girl who popped out once in a while. The one who felt second best to Buffy (cause she was in fighting form) and I imagine that has got to really suck. No family or friends and a calling that you have to share with someone that is better than you at it. I felt bad for her a few times and while I don't hate her anymore, she isn't my favorite slayer. While I understand the resentment below the surface, I thought she went too far for the 'poor me' card to work.

The great thing about Faith is you don't expect much. So if she suddenly goes bad ass again or does something really stupid, you really aren't pissed or annoyed or upset about it. Well, unless she tries to kill one of your favorite characters that is.

wisherwasher

I don't know, I don't see her as the opposite of Buffy. She seemed much more like Willow to me. Both were neglected by their parents and didn't fit in socially, so they used their perceived strengths to try to gain acceptance and when granted a little power, they used it to manipulate the world as they saw fit because they thought they were better.

sum1

It would have been better off if she hadn't turned up at all.
In my experience Faith is all too often the popular choice, but Buffy's the one true slayer. And it WAS Buffy's show.
There's a lost little girl in there but it's a totally vile nasty heartless little girl, the sort who'd be a child-murderer, not any sort of little girl deserving of sympathy. I bet she was a classic bully as kid.

Faith was rotten to the bone, she didn't need reasons to be that way. She was rotten because she was a nasty piece of work who refused to face her conscience or accept responsibility. Life not being great for her just gave her excuses to indulge her faults to the max. She was spiteful and twisted by nature and callous and selfish. If she'd made any effort she could have been otherwise but she refused to face right and wrong and she just wallowed in her faults.
I'm really pissed off every time she appears, I'd certainly be really pissed off if she started getting back to her old tricks, no matter how much I expect her to.

Plus, we got sold this whole Faith-is-oh-so-reformed crap, as if she was suddenly a saint.
She was very like Willow. They're both callous selfish creatures who try to compensate for their inner weakness by abusing power. Willow playing with Tara's mind was very Faith-like. Just a tad more sophisticated than the sewer scum was capable of.

Laira

I agree with every word. Faith was detestable from the get-go and never improved, AFAIC.

I still maintain Faith turned herself in, not because she repented or wanted to atone, but because 1) she was on the run from the Scooby Gang, the Watcher's Council and the police. If she hadn't turned herself in her life expectancy could have been measured in hours. 2) Faith was broke, friendless, homeless and literally living in the gutter - jail was a step up.

In short, she both gained safety and improved her standard of living, and as a juvenile, she probably would have been let out on her 21st birthday. So it's not as if she was facing a life sentence.

What really got me is the way Buffy was made to look bad because she was upset to see her alleged 'true love' coddling the woman who tried to kill her. Angel's "it's about saving souls" speech is the height of hypocrisy considering how badly he treated Lindsey two eps later (but that's another rant).

I get the impression in S7 of BTVS that we were supposed to root for Faith, despite her idiocy in leading the girls into a trap. They even tried Spike/Faith. I hated her on 'Angel' too. I hated seeing the Fang Gang take back seat to Faith and Willow on their own show, and I hated that the day was saved by two horrible characters.

sum1

The Spike/Faith scene in Dirty Girls made me want to puke and I was SO pissed off that she survived that bomb a few eps later. And I so hoped she'd get killed in Chosen.

As for Angel being so into saving Faith's soul, it was so desperately clear it was really all about him being into her ass. I REALLY didn't need the Angel season 1 Faith story. I sure as hell didn't need her popping up in Sunnydale in Buffy season 1, either.

And dragging her back for Angel season 4 and Buffy season 7... that was entirely uncalled for.

Laira

But . . . Sum1. . . Buffy was Angel's Twu Wuv 4EVAH!!11!!!. How dare you imply that Angel had a *gasp* sexual *gasp* interest in another girl! Are you implying that Angel was a shallow, fickle jerk who as the song goes "When you're not near the one you love, love the one you're near"?

Gosh, what ever gave you that idea? It's not as if Angel ever vacillated between, oh say, Buffy and Cordelia in S4 of ATS.

I'm shocked, shocked I say!

Anyway, back on topic:

Is Faith's miserable childhood canon or fanon? I keep hearing Faith apologists claiming that Faith had an unhappy childhood (poor wittle wooby), which somehow justifies her murder spree and allying herself with the Mayor and his genocidal campaign. Sorry, not buying it. I don't care if her mother was drunk who slapped her around and/or her stepfather was a little too friendly, that still doesn't excuse her behavior.

lols82

I liked Faith to an extent, she was fiesty and in the end she went the right way. She was pretty messed up though there's no denying that.

If they had brought a Faith character in to play a slayer which had all the similarities of Buffy then where would the fun have been in that?!

p.s. there only was one true slayer

Laira

I never got why anyone was supposed to think that she was anything other than a nasty piece of work, and I don't get why the Council didn't finish her off when they had the chance. I'd much rather have seen Faith die in 'Chosen' than Amanda.

I can see Faith as a child, beating up the younger children and stealing their lunch money, Faith torturing puppies, Faith blaming the other children for her misdeeds, etc.

sum1

She wasn't so much "fiesty" as somebody who got her kicks out of hurting things and who hid their weakness behind a loud swagger. And she didn't go "the right way" so much as the way that was easiest for her.
A lot more fun than there was from the awful revolting Faith character that they created. There was no "fun" in Faith being on the show, she was a blot on the show.
Yep.
I wish the council HAD finished her off.
Yeah, exactly. I always figured her for a bully.

Bronson

Sum1, I love your assesstment of Faith and agree with you. In fact when we first meet Faith and see the things she does, you kind of wonder why the PTB would chose this person to be the champion of humanity. Faith clearly is damaged by the time Buffy and the Scoobies meet her (which is why I wished they had explored her backstory like with Angel and Spike). Could they have stopped her from going to the darkside as I have once asked? Circumstances helped but ultimately Faith did make the final choice.

How did I feel about Faith's redemption? I agree Angel was wrong to protect her from Buffy after all she had done and Buffy was justified in her wanting to avenge herself.

My guess is that they wanted Faith to be as much an opposite of Buffy as Kendra was. If Kendra was totally by the book and never deviated from it, Faith was totally out of control and rarely though before acting.

sum1

Actually, I think Kendra was a lot like Faith. Kendra wasn't in control of herself as much as she liked to think. Her aggression was over the top, out-of-control and poorly thought-out. Plus, like Faith, she was a swaggerer who put on a big show.

I don't feel Faith so much went over to the dark side, I think she was always on the dark side and just showed her true colors more later on. I went into that more in the first post on this thread.