Buffy and Angel - Chosen Champions {Buffy♥Angel} #1,005: Even Sarah's daughter ships Buffy and Angel! - Page 5

**BlackWhiteRose** · 10-25-2022, 12:47 PM

Ha I love that

**starryeyesxx** · 10-28-2022, 09:24 AM

It’s true. It’s the truth and he shows his manhood by saying so. Yeah. I thought that what the final episode did very well was admit that Buffy really is in love with Angel. That the sexual relationship she had with Spike was unhealthy. That it was unwise. - James Marsters
https://kim-jiho.tumblr.com/post/78273160245

Butterfly85 · 10-28-2022, 06:29 PM

First time I agree with JM, it was VERY unhealthy. I'm also surprised, cause all I ever hear is how Buffy meant that ILY. It guess it's up to interpretation, but for me I will never believe love had ANYTHING to do with the Spike/Buffy relationship. Spike literally became obsessed with Buffy overnight and started doing disturbing and weird things to feed that fetish (Stalking her, breaking in her home to steal her panties and clothes, making out with mannequins, building a sexbot, etc. WTF?) and then Buffy was depressed, hated herself, and wanted to die when she started fooling around with Spike. I just...will never get where the love is. They were toxic and abusive, and that's all there is to it.

Riley/Buffy is still my favorite relationship of hers. I also still believe she did love Riley, but I do think Angel was the love her life and you could really see that love from both of them. I do believe Angel was her hardest kill, it was a great throwback in S7 for her to bring up to Xander that she killed Angel when he kept whining about Anya.

**BlackWhiteRose** · 10-30-2022, 12:11 PM

You know me: I´m team Bangel (Buffy/Angel) forever

angel4buffy · 10-31-2022, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly85 (View Post)

First time I agree with JM, it was VERY unhealthy. I'm also surprised, cause all I ever hear is how Buffy meant that ILY. It guess it's up to interpretation, but for me I will never believe love had ANYTHING to do with the Spike/Buffy relationship. Spike literally became obsessed with Buffy overnight and started doing disturbing and weird things to feed that fetish (Stalking her, breaking in her home to steal her panties and clothes, making out with mannequins, building a sexbot, etc. WTF?) and then Buffy was depressed, hated herself, and wanted to die when she started fooling around with Spike. I just...will never get where the love is. They were toxic and abusive, and that's all there is to it.

Riley/Buffy is still my favorite relationship of hers. I also still believe she did love Riley, but I do think Angel was the love her life and you could really see that love from both of them. I do believe Angel was her hardest kill, it was a great throwback in S7 for her to bring up to Xander that she killed Angel when he kept whining about Anya.

First, hello... I hope it's okay that I join?

Second, I've always found it a bit jarring as a member of this fandom, which produced my ultimate OTP in Buffy/Angel, it also produced my least favorite pairing in Buffy/Spike.

I agree with everything you said, and what gets me is how Spuffy shippers say they've aged better than Buffy/Angel... Um, how?! The main thing I see people come at Buffy/Angel over is their age discrepancy - the pedophile argument is so old at this point - you can't use real world age/logic in a show about vampires/supernatural elements. If you insist on doing that, Giles would be the most age appropriate for Buffy when it comes to the older men in her life. The main defense of Spuffy I still see is how Buffy was an adult when she got with Spike... Again, so? That doesn't make an abusive/toxic relationship okay/any better. I just find the arguments so one-side and hypocritical.

I never really warmed to Buffy/Riley, but I'd take them over her and Spike - any day! And, he never tried to kill her, so he does have that going for him.

Butterfly85 · 10-31-2022, 07:44 PM

Welcome, and of course it's okay lol. I always love discussing Buffy on here. I never heard all that before, but in general it's not the first time I've seen fanbases that ship toxic and abusive couples come up with the most ridiculous and hypocritical bs to defend the horrible way one or both of the people in the pairing have treated each other. I don't get how they aged better, I feel they get worse and worse every time I view them. The first time I rewatched S6 when I was older, I found them to be even more disturbing if that's possible. I also noticed how many times Buffy said "No" to Spike's advances, but he just kept ignoring her until she gave in (Which made the attempted rape scene even more inevitable and expected. Nothing OOC about it RME) and I never heard some say Angel was a pedophile. Huh? Uh, Angel and Spike are BOTH vampires and have hundreds of years on Buffy. So if they describe Angel that way, than how is Spike not the same? That literally doesn't even make sense, but like I said I've heard many crazy things some pull out of their ass to defend a toxic couple so I'm not really surprised either. Angel never tried to kill Buffy, it was only when he lost his soul and Angelus tried to. Spike tried to kill Buffy for years, was happy when he could hit her, loved putting her down by saying she came back wrong, is an animal, tried to rape her, etc. Spike/Buffy is the worst pairing on the show and in all of TV IMO. I've always found them sick and disgusting, and nothing will ever change my mind on that. I wish it NEVER happened, and I still think it was OOC for both of them. It will never make sense to me to ever pair these two characters.

**starryeyesxx** · 11-01-2022, 07:52 AM

https://kim-jiho.tumblr.com/post/76672740610

angel4buffy · 11-01-2022, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterfly85 (View Post)

Welcome, and of course it's okay lol. I always love discussing Buffy on here. I never heard all that before, but in general it's not the first time I've seen fanbases that ship toxic and abusive couples come up with the most ridiculous and hypocritical bs to defend the horrible way one or both of the people in the pairing have treated each other. I don't get how they aged better, I feel they get worse and worse every time I view them. The first time I rewatched S6 when I was older, I found them to be even more disturbing if that's possible. I also noticed how many times Buffy said "No" to Spike's advances, but he just kept ignoring her until she gave in (Which made the attempted rape scene even more inevitable and expected. Nothing OOC about it RME) and I never heard some say Angel was a pedophile. Huh? Uh, Angel and Spike are BOTH vampires and have hundreds of years on Buffy. So if they describe Angel that way, than how is Spike not the same? That literally doesn't even make sense, but like I said I've heard many crazy things some pull out of their ass to defend a toxic couple so I'm not really surprised either. Angel never tried to kill Buffy, it was only when he lost his soul and Angelus tried to. Spike tried to kill Buffy for years, was happy when he could hit her, loved putting her down by saying she came back wrong, is an animal, tried to rape her, etc. Spike/Buffy is the worst pairing on the show and in all of TV IMO. I've always found them sick and disgusting, and nothing will ever change my mind on that. I wish it NEVER happened, and I still think it was OOC for both of them. It will never make sense to me to ever pair these two characters.

I've mostly seen that stuff on YouTube and Reddit; I'm sure it's on other platforms, too... Since these days most seem to prefer Buffy/Spike.

As for Buffy's constant "no's, stop's, don't's," I really hate when people use those to victim blame her, specifically when it comes to the infamous bathroom scene. The fact that most of their shippers seem to be Spike stans and mostly defend him, especially during the attempted rape blows my mind. It was obvious he was taking advantage of her depression long before that scene - the balcony scene comes to mind.

**BlackWhiteRose** · 11-01-2022, 02:37 PM

Love the gifset!

Butterfly85 · 11-01-2022, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel4buffy (View Post)

I've mostly seen that stuff on YouTube and Reddit; I'm sure it's on other platforms, too... Since these days most seem to prefer Buffy/Spike.

As for Buffy's constant "no's, stop's, don't's," I really hate when people use those to victim blame her, specifically when it comes to the infamous bathroom scene. The fact that most of their shippers seem to be Spike stans and mostly defend him, especially during the attempted rape blows my mind. It was obvious he was taking advantage of her depression long before that scene - the balcony scene comes to mind.

I agree, cause to them Spike can do no wrong.

Nice gifset.