[Kiki17]

Originally Posted by Det.Logan (View Post) Don't do it at all or do it right and the true statement that this show is good at writing strong and complex women makes me sick at the low effort they obviously put into Tammy.

I totally agree, thats a very good point, very low effort was put into Tammy and its mostly cause she has been used as a triangle device. Its a shame, but I never saw anything "strong" or "confident" about Tammy.

[Gelfling]

very low effort was put into Tammy and its mostly cause she has been used as a triangle device

I don't know. Wiley was just a device to bring the whole A/K/P from a boil to an explosion but they made more of an effort in a few episodes than they did with Tammy in... Gosh... how many episodes has she been in? Way too many

[Kiki17]

Originally Posted by Gelfling (View Post) I don't know. Wiley was just a device to bring the whole A/K/P from a boil to an explosion but they made more of an effort in a few episodes than they did with Tammy in... Gosh... how many episodes has she been in? Way too many

So basically they just dropped the ball on Tammy?

[Gelfling]

And Blake and Bond... yes.

[Kiki17]

Right! How could we forget those two (though I did not mind Bond that much )

[Gelfling]

Right! How could we forget those two (though I did not mind Bond that much )

Well at least with Michael, we know it's not because the casting was wrong (unlike with the others although Reaser is not that bad, really)

[Kiki17]

Originally Posted by Gelfling (View Post) Well at least with Michael, we know it's not because the casting was wrong (unlike with the others although Reaser is not that bad, really)

Yea I agree, I didn't mind the casting of Michael (they just did not do much with him) and Reaser is not bad either. Porter on the other hand well....

[silver girl]

I actually think Tammy was a fairly well rounded character for a guest star. She had a defined personality and sufficient motivations IMO. She was just the opposite of everything that Reaser described her as.

Bond and Blake were where they really dropped the ball. Bond was little more than wallpaper and while Blake had a bit more to him than Bond, I still couldn't tell you much of anything about him. I know more about Wendy Scott-Carr and whatshername, head judge.

[witgit]

I actually think Tammy was a fairly well rounded character for a guest star. She had a defined personality and sufficient motivations IMO. She was just the opposite of everything that Reaser described her as.

Oh yes. I laughed out loud when I read that interview. Strong and confident are not the two words that come to mind when I think of Tammy. She may have very well been in her professional life. But we only ever got to see her with Will and being whiny. And by the end they went and ruined any notions of what I may have thought she was like away from Will too, when they had her almost forfeit her promotion for the sake of a man who doesn't know what he wants from her. And then there was the stupid contest with her sister. She just turned into an all round weak and insecure character by Wrongful Termination.

Bond and Blake were where they really dropped the ball. Bond was little more than wallpaper and while Blake had a bit more to him than Bond, I still couldn't tell you much of anything about him. I know more about Wendy Scott-Carr and whatshername, head judge.

Victoria Adler. I think we knew more about her from just Lifeguard itself. I feel the writers just lost interest in Bond as a character mid way. I thought up till Cleaning House and VIP Treatment they were still trying to give him a personality, or teasing us that there was more behind the curtain. But he soon turned into nothing more than a plot device.

Blake rhymes with mistake. What else do you need to know about his character?

[Gelfling]

Blake rhymes with mistake. What else do you need to know about his character?

oh we so need to find rhymes for all the other characters now!

I feel the writers just lost interest in Bond as a character mid way

I think the season didn't go the way they planned and they obviously were taking their sweet time even deciding what Bond was there for. And then they decided to scrap the whole merger storyline and so suddenly he had a purpose. The character really started becoming interesting when he was a device because before that, they just didn't know why they brought him in (besides having a good looking African American on the show).

[Det.Logan]

Originally Posted by Gelfling (View Post) I don't know. Wiley was just a device to bring the whole A/K/P from a boil to an explosion but they made more of an effort in a few episodes than they did with Tammy in... Gosh... how many episodes has she been in? Way too many

I agree on Wiley, he came out better even though, in retrospective, it is clear he was a device but he was not really personal with any of the regulars (I may be wrong since I don't remember the episodes he was in) while Tammy was "hired" to cover a very different spot, a spot that required a better job. Of course I'm not talkling about the actors that maybe with the exception of SC, all of them had the potential to fill the roles.
In any case this problem will return the moment they decide to add a new steady partner to Peter, Alicia or Will.

[Mirani]

Tammy I think it's something they feel they have to say though, it seems like every female character out there is "strong and confident"

[Gelfling]

In any case this problem will return the moment they decide to add a new steady partner to Peter, Alicia or Will.

They will be met with hostility with shippers on any side but that doesn't mean they have to be careless in crafting their character. I do agree that it makes things more difficult with the audience but that shouldn't be a factor when creating the characters.

it seems like every female character out there is "strong and confident"

they don't want to be left behind. Cable (and certain characters) change a lot of things for women on tv and those who are still playing insecure weak (and frankly boring) characters have to at least pretend they're surfing the wave

[silver girl]

Tammy I think it's something they feel they have to say though, it seems like every female character out there is "strong and confident"

I don't really understand this though. All women are not the same. There are a lot of women like Tammy out there. Women who are insecure, immature in relationships, or who love the wrong guy. Women who want to be anything but like their mothers/sisters/female role models and end up just like them. Women who should prioritize their careers and know that but make a stupid choice for a chance for love instead. They aren't bad women; they are who they are. As much as she gets on my nerves, I can't say I've never known a Tammy. So why not accurately recognize that? Say, look, love her or hate her this is who she is. The fact that she isn't kickass in every area of her life doesn't make her an awful character or representation of women.

My bigger issues with Tammy are her reflection on the character of Will and the fact that Elizabeth Reaser gets on my nerves.

[Gelfling]

So why not accurately recognize that? Say, look, love her or hate her this is who she is. The fact that she isn't kickass in every area of her life doesn't make her an awful character or representation of women.

I agree. Going about it differently is as sexist as portraying every minority as saintly is racist. Acceptance comes not from ignoring that we are all different from each other but from acknowledging those differences.