secretk

I agree that Andy was put in a horrible situation . This is true. On the other hand Ephram and Andy had a lot of issues long before Madisongate. Madisongate was just the tip of the iceberg. The last thing that tipped off Ephram basically. There were a lot of issues between them and it made sense that it took them 4 seasons to resolve them.

The writers just did not know what to do with Laynie and her connection to Colin. The moment Colin died they wanted to get rid of everything and every character that reminds us of him. I understand why they dropped Laynie, but Hannah was just a bad attempt to replace her. If they did not want Laynie in the show anymore they should have faced the music and prepare better. Hannah was just not a good choice. I am not sure that her character and her story fit in Everwood's style as a whole.

I think that they wanted Bright to have a relationship too and they decided to use Hannah for that. I am all for Bright being in a relationship, but Hannah was not a good choice. Her character was too much of an opposite to Bright to make this work or be realistic. You know what. The cheating maybe was put there because Berlanti did not like that much Hannah/Bright and had to find a way to break them up .

Exactly!

jediwands

This is true but they got through a ton before this time. Andy came clean about the Julia affair, Andy worked like hell to prove he loved his children, Ephram accepted Everwood as his home. A lot of progress was made and I believe Ephram’s relationship with Madison was so over-the-top it was the primary reason all their progress was ruined. But then again, it’s obvious they still needed time to work on their father/son dynamic because a typical father would have told his underaged son he was not dating an adult woman employer of the family. Andy tried but Ephram didn’t listen. If they had a strong relationship they would have respected each other enough for Ephram to see he had no business going there and wouldn’t have gone there. When there’s mutual respect and a strong connection, children listen to their parents. So obviously they still had stuff to get through.

So true that they didn’t know what to do with Laynie. I do wonder if Berlanti realized just how popular she was. The Everwood fandom was not your typical fandom. People didn’t complain or were loud, in an immature way so most likely he never received proper feedback.

LOL Very possible. The cheating did take place later on in the season and I’m sure that’s when Berlanti started to get more involved again too. Notice he didn’t have them end up together in the series finale and I think that speaks volumes.

secretk

To be honest for me 2 seasons was not enough to remedy the fact that Andy was an absent father for most of Ephram's life or the fact that Ephram simply did not connect to Andy as a father, nor treated him as one. For Ephram there was only one parent and that was Julia. I kind of see the idea that their issues can't be resolved that fast. I just would have liked for them to have other sort of obstacles in Season 3 and not Madisongate.

Good that you mentioned the word respect because I honestly do think that this was the issue in the early seasons. Ephram did not respect Andy as a father because in his mind (we never know as we had not seen this) Andy was never a father to him prior Julia's death. The few flashbacks we had showed the same. Ephram did not consider Andy as his father and did not respect him as such. And you are right - this is the reason Ephram did not listen to Andy.

So true . And Everwood was not exactly in the era of tweeting you know. And the fans were not your typical teens that tweet 20 times to say how much they like or dislike something.

Exactly! He kept it ambiguous but he mostly showed them as friends and not so much as romantic partners.

jediwands

When do you think the respect finally arrived?

Precisely.

Right. There was a reason. I mean, he probably thought the timing was too soon anyway but given how he made sure Ephram/Amy and Andy/Nina (his two main pairings from day 1) received 100% happy endings, we see how he works when it comes to his pairings he loves. He wants the happy ending. So if he loved Bright/Hannah, I have a feeling he would have given them a happy ending too. He didn't. He gave them a realistic, hopeful (mostly as friends) ending instead which worked out for the best overall too.

secretk

For me in Season 4. The episode with the camping. Those are the scenes where I truly saw Ephram respecting Andy. What about you?

He even rushed Nina/Andy if you think about it just so that they can have the ending they thought the couple deserved. He obviously did not feel compelled to do the same for Bright/Hannah.

everwoodfan52

I agree. This was the very beginning of the growing respect these two will eventually have for each other. That's why this was such an important episode.

jediwands

You hit it with the camping episode.

I think Ephram was on his way to respecting Andy around mid-season 3, even as early as beginning of season 3 when he returned from NYC. Their moment when Ephram returns and Andy's waiting at the door for EA to say goodnight in 3.1 was very sweet. You could see the love and caring between them. But then of course all that was for not considering what happened at the end of season 3. However, the camping episode in season 4 was THE father/son episode for them.

Precisely. Bingo.

secretk

I loved their scenes that episode . This episode is one of the reasons I love Season 4 and put it on second place in my ranking.

secretk

In the first three seasons I felt like their relationship was unstable. They had good moments, but it was quite easy to for Ephram to turn against Andy and not trust him. It was clear that Ephram was not fully on respecting Andy as a father. It was easy for him to go back to the way he was before Julia's death.

Only in Season 4 Ephram accepted Andy as a father and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I felt that from then on no matter what happens Ephram would respect Andy and see him as his father. This was not the case in the first 3 seasons.

jediwands

This goes back to the Madisongate thing too. Only when that entire nightmare was over could they finally heal and get past everything. Too much guilt and lies before this time. Ephram dating Madison was a side effect to not respecting his father. However, the continued relationship, ridiculous pregnancy, Madison not telling Ephram about the baby, Andy not telling Ephram, all of this delayed Andy/Ephram and it's a shame. I rather have seen a less ridiculous, and I'll say it, less disgusting way to delay a full healing process for Andy/Ephram.

secretk

It's true that this was an easy and cheap way to delay the full on blossoming of the Andy/Ephram relationship. I completely agree with you that were far better ways than this.

Also there were other ways (and far better IMO) to cause bumps and obstacles in the Amy/Ephram relationship aspect.

The writers just decided to use Madisongate for this and man were we annoyed .

jediwands

Exactly.

I wonder if Berlanti went there because he knew he was taking some time off in season 3. We know Madisongate was the soapiest storyilne of the series. We also know writing soapy stuff, triangles = lazy writing too. Season 1 Everwood was damn tough to write because it was so thick with quality in other words. Berlanti might have thought throwing in soapy stuff right before he took a break would be easier for Rina to handle while he wasn't as attached to the show. He also threw in Heche as Amanda which was another soapy mess too. I really do wonder if he went there to make things easier for Rina. Who knows.

secretk

That or Berlanti would have handled this differently. Look Madisongate was a soap opera element, but let's be honest here. The way Ephram reacted was even more worthy of being soap opera story . Maybe Berlanti would have toned it down a bit and make Ephram less drama queen.

jediwands

LOL! That's so very true.