jediwands

jediwands

We have made it to the finale of 2!

Looking forward to the watch/discussion!

jediwands

Thoughts while watching

Well, right before watching, I still cannot believe we do not have an episode transcript for this amazing episode. It sucks! I wish we had one. If I had more time, I would create one myself but I don't have extra time at the moment. Maybe in the future. If anyone wants to create an episode transcript, please do, you will be credited of course and we will place it in our Introduction Thread.

- Irv's dream discussion is golden. What sage words.

- The Dream/Flashback is profound... the way Andy looks as he's making it into the restaurant in their favorite NYC restaurant illustrates perfectly how the Brown's functioned during that time period.

- Ephram telling Andy they are just dreams is sweet but oh Ephram, dreams are complex and do have spiritual meaning.

- Bright's Flush and Go to Harold remains epic.

- Harold and his bagel creation is typical Harold.

- I hate seeing Sarah Lancaster's name in the credits as a guest star.

- Amy looks so cute, I love her hair. Emily is stunning.

- Bright saying the Townies wouldn't recognize a bagel from a donut is hilarious.

- The Ephram/Amy scene at the Brown house is so moving. Amy rambling about bagels, suggesting Ephram not go to NYC, is so adorable. Emily's comedic timing is pure gold.

- Amy continues to be adorable throughout this entire episode.

- Amy mentioning Andy is a millionaire means... it's true.

- Greg and Emily have the greatest chemistry I have ever seen on the screen, both small and large.

- Andy talking to a Moose is hilarious.

- Poetic that Madison walks in right then. Way to screw up a funny moment. The last funny moment Andy has for a long time due to you, Madison, for not just being a babysitter like you should have been.

- Andy's nightmare reflects the future state of father/son... turmoil, darkness will mess up all their progress.

- Madison, there she appears like the cloud of darkness, she certainly is.

- No, Madison, it is not okay for you to be there. Why go to Andy? Go to a different doctor, you moron. Denver has plenty of doctors who can help you. But no, you had to go to Andy, you cloud of darkness.

- I despise this scene so much as far as content even if admittedly the acting between Sarah and Treat, along with the directing, writing, is phenomenal. I will observe this since the actual storyline is evil darkness.

- Townies not only do not know a bagel from a donut but they also don't know how to spell.

- Harold hired Louise.

- Andy looks so determined non-verbally from the moment Madison dropped the babygate news.

- Andy telling Edna immediately is telling. He trusts her.

- Andy, yes, you never should have allowed Ephram/Madison but you are wrong about Madison... she is stupid and immature and basically gross in many ways, but she is still the adult in the past relationship and should have had the sense to prevent a relationship from happening in the first place but she did not.

- Mountains appearing, hello, Mountains, you gorgeous view.

- Bright calling Ephram and Amy "Soulmates" really is everything.

- Treat as Andy nonverbally in this episode is chilling.

- Father/Son talk about Amy was so great. Andy being told this about Amy plays a very large part in why he keeps the pregnancy from Ephram. Yes, NYC, too, but Amy was the factor that I think made Andy determined to let Ephram live, experience childhood/high school without Madison destroying it, in Andy's mind.

- Rose and how she handles Harold in this scene at the bagel disaster is so great. This is showing Rose as silent but strong. This is when Rose is so good with Harold.

- As usual, an episode goes with severe drama (pregnancy) then comedy (bagels) as well. I have always loved the balance.

- Andy and Madison pregnancy scene that changes everything... why, Berlanti? Why was this necessary?

- THE MOUNTAIN SCENE!

* Amy complaining about hiking up a mountain is adorable.
* Wait for me... Greg sounds so NYC there in accent, it's perfection!
* What is this? How Emily has Amy say it is adorable.
* Sexy picnic, another great line and Emily shines.
* Amy commenting that Ephram looks nervous as she calmly puts down her stuff...
* You're IT, Amy.... Bye Madison, Ephram never came close to loving you like he loves Amy!

- The chemistry between Greg and Emily is stunning! Majestic. Magical. Perfection.

- The Ephram and Amy eye contact is... unlike anything I have ever seen. Only these two.

- The I want you to wait for me and the kissing... the definition of soulmates with an unstoppable spiritual connection.

- It is amazing to think about how long Harold had been mad at Andy.

- The Andy/Harold dream talk and about Andy's life in NYC is probably my favorite scene ever between these two. I absolutely LOVE this scene. Tom and Treat shine like the brightest stars together. Wow, are they amazing together.

- Andy asking Harold to be his partner at the end, like it was a small detail was the best.

- Andy bantering asking Harold for a hug...

- I love how Bright and Delia are there with Ephram.

- Delia's hat is so cute.

- Bright totally ships Ephram and Amy. He totally wanted these two to be together for the summer! He must have been thrilled finding out Amy went with him and stayed for 10 days.

- So cute how Ephram puts his number in permanent marker on Delia's arm. Delia telling him she already had the number is even more adorable.

- The father/son goodbye was sweet but of course, you cannot forget Madisongate was created.

- Andy looked like he was taking in air as if he could finally breathe again because Ephram is going to NYC. Oh Andy, if you only knew things would eventually blow up since Madison is the dark cloud of the series who refuses to go away.

- Bright and Delia heading to the movies is adorable. We didn't we get more Bright and Delia?

- Amy being there when Ephram finds his seat... her rambling about peanuts. The little kiss, Ephram's grin. I remember seeing this for the first time and being in heaven. SO cute! I just got tears in my eyes watching them together, Ephram finally smiling for the first time in a long while, they are heading to NYC together!

- Andy finally arrives at the restaurant and goes in... what a twist, Ephram getting accepted into that program.

- The most chilling moment of the entire episode actually is not the pregnancy reveal, it is hearing Julia ask Andy what it would take for Andy to wake up... wow.... just wow... Julia's death.

==========================================


Thoughts after watching

First off, I want to say I started watching Everwood because Jerry recommended it. I also wanted to get into something not named horrible Dawson's Creek. Boy was I glad I started watching Everwood all thanks to Jerry.

You just knew based on who wrote this episode (especially Berlanti and Green) it was going to be superb. This was actually the first episode of the entire series I watched for the first time. The other amazing thing? This is the same one for my significant other too. Which is pretty incredible. Everwood was magical and brought together many people due to the majestic magic Berlanti's series flawlessly, energetic was able to do. I will never get over the power of Everwood.

Okay, my general thoughts on the episode:

I have to say, my biggest negative (in addition to the Madison pregnancy) was that Nina wasn't in the episode. I really missed Nina in this one but I guess from a storyline-standpoint it made sense.

The Bright/Ephram friendship, and their hug at the end as Ephram was heading to NYC was beautiful. I love that nice conclusion these two received as their developing friendship evolved throughout the entire season. I loved Bright calling Ephram and Amy Soulmates and his cute scene with Delia at the end as they went to a movie together. Bright's comments about the bagels and Townies at the breakfast table was hilarious too. It was great seeing Bright end the season on a high note, all best friends forever with Ephram, close again with his sister, heading to the movies with Delia and shipping Ephram and Amy like crazy. Bright spoke for the vast majority of the audience about Ephram and Amy in this one.

I thought the Ephram and Delia goodbye was so cute, as Ephram wrote his number on her arm. I kind of wish Ephram would have apologized to his sister for all the Madison drama she had to endure. Otherwise, the goodbye between them was so sweet. But then I think about how Delia has to watch him leave for Europe at the end of S3 which was indirectly another revisit to the hell she endured as a result of Madison and it's so maddening. But I won't think about that now.

Harold and his bagel business that failed after two seconds was funny but of course, always destined to fail. Bright highlighting how stupid and ridiculous the Townies are I loved to see. They deserved the digs considering what they did to Linda and Harold, idiots. I love how Rose handled Harold and the temporary bagel disaster... she knew it was going to fail but let it play out and was there for him when it did.

All of the Ephram and Amy moments were pure magic, majestic, and beautiful! Amy and the awkward, tension-filled moment, asking him to stay, even if the asking was not necessarily fair, it was incredibly sweet and realistic. How many have been in that same position? Realness. Amy KNEW she shouldn't be asking, but she wanted to so incredibly much so she couldn't hold back. Then the picnic, Ephram struggling, the love of his life, his Soulmate, he was so nervous during this moment, massive moment... asking her to wait for him... adorable. Greg and Emily pulled off all of the Ephram and Amy scenes effortlessly. Their chemistry together is at the top of the highest mountain, the very best I have ever seen. I love how it all worked out. Ephram couldn't have stayed in Everwood, I am glad he went and Amy went with him for ten days. The last scene, when she said she "wasn't good at waiting" I wanted to cheer forever! What this demonstrated so perfectly is that Amy is shown as a strong female character. It was perfect. Ephram's grin on his face was so telling and it wasn't just a grin for the moment, it was a grin based on two years of waiting and finally getting his wish of being with the love of his life. I love these two so much.

The interaction between Dr. Brown and Dr. Abbott was so good. Notice this episode showed both main pairings (only Andy and Nina was missing) in Ephram and Amy and Andy and Harold as far as the main Brown and Abbott interaction, the romantic relationship and the best friend friendship.

Andy and Harold have always had a love/hate relationship, but at the heart of these two is intense understanding and respect and yes, even loyalty. Harold listening to Andy's "dream" and life in NYC, saying all the right words was so touching. Andy asking him to be his partner (and wanting a hug lol) was such a great twist! Treat and Tom shined in this scene together. By far, my favorite Andy and Harold scene.

Treat Williams was amazing in this episode. His nonverbal communication as Andy was stunning. I also love how Andy told Edna first about Madison's pregnancy. He did not hesitate, he trusted Edna. I am glad he had someone to tell. I will get into my thoughts on that horrible storyline at the end. But I thought Treat was brilliant.

The dream sequence in this one was so powerful and moving. I love how it all unfolded. It was showing Andy that he would never forget Julia, the progress he has made with Ephram but also, I think it was foreshadowing that things would crumble for father/son in the future due to Madisongate. It was all of the above in meaning. "It really scares me to think about what it would take to wake you up" was the most important line of the entire episode. If Julia hadn't passed away, Andy wouldn't have developed true relationships with his children. Julia's death was meant to be, sadly, and deep down even Julia understood this given how she found Everwood, and the things she said to Andy leading up to her passing. On an unconscious spiritual level, she knew.

The entire dream storyline was so spiritually moving, it blew me away. I love how everything connected together, past, present and future.

As for the bad part of this episode... the pregnancy reveal... I am going to copy/paste what I said about the situation in another thread. I rather not spend extra time thinking too deeply about this subject again because it makes me so mad.

But here are my thoughts from years ago that remain in the present:

I've always despised Andy being the scapegoat in this situation. Madison is 100% to blame for stupidly dating Ephram in the first place, let alone getting pregnant, and then deciding NOT to tell him about it. She never listened to a word Andy said before. Why now? Because it was easy and convenient for her, not because she actually respected Andy. She never respected Andy! She went into his home and seduced his teenage son while working for him. Gross, unacceptable, disgusting. Andy found out about it and he begged them both to not go through with the underage relationship. Neither one of them listened to him. Then he begs Madison not to hurt him. What does she do? Makes Ephram feel less than human throughout their entire illegal relationship and then gets pregnant. Handles the pregnancy as poorly as you're going to get by going to Andy and not Ephram... Andy?!?? I just stated the reasons why she never listened to him in the first place! Let alone the fact that she was the adult, she was pregnant, it was 100% her responsibility to tell Ephram about the pregnancy, not Andy's responsibility, no one else... Madison alone. She failed in every way. Then to put the extra screw in she finally decides to tell Ephram at the worst possible moment in NYC. What a winner Madison is. She was a disaster from the moment her mug hit our screen.

So yes... Madison is the one who decided not to tell Ephram about the pregnancy and adoption. It was her responsibility to tell him and she failed in every way. I will never fully blame Andy for not telling Ephram. Last time I checked he was his father and was dragged into a situation he tried to prevent in the first place! Madison was the adult, the one impregnated by Ephram, it was her body... she should have done the right thing and told Ephram about everything WHEN it was happening, not in NYC way later and basically only to get revenge on Andy.

To add now... Andy definitely was not exactly pleasant when he suggested Madison not tell Ephram about the pregnancy. It certainly was not his finest moment. But I understood it... the second he saw Ephram talk about Amy and finally getting together with her is when Andy decided to try and protect Ephram from the baby reveal. Right or wrong, he was trying to protect his son and allow him to have a childhood that was so rocky and sad in the beginning. Andy did this out of love even if he made mistakes along the way.

But sorry, I will always blame Madison for everything primarily. From the moment she walked into the Brown residence as an employee, not a woman freely allowed to seduce a teenage boy or confuse and upset a little girl along the way. When she went there, every disgusting mistake she made along the way was all on her and it's a shame Andy had take the fall for this horrible character.

Ending on a positive note... this episode was very high quality, and I loved how it wrapped up S2. I love Ephram/Amy, Ephram/Bright, Andy/Harold and where all three pairings end up at the conclusion of S2. The dream/flashback storyline had spirituality shining like the brightest star and I loved every minute of it.

jediwands

This comment on the old episode discussion thread cracked me up as I just noticed it for the first time:

slicknickshady

Someone had it bad! Haha. It wasn’t me was it?

And yeah.. it will be so odd to watch this without the original music. I hear “Please Don’t Pass Me By” is replaced on the HBO Max streaming. I’ll may have to watch 2.22 from the link one poster here sent me. The original airings.

I have to start my rewatch again soon.

jediwands

https://www.fanforum.com/1129390-post35.html

Yes, the music is like a special character. It would be so bizarre watching without the original music.

Looking forward to your thoughts once you start your rewatch again!

jediwands

Quoting just a few thoughts from the previous episode discussion thread, the original, that was live while the series was active:

^^^ THIS! Madison had to start trouble though, it is who she is.

^ That is me statistically as well.

Jerry D

I thought that this was one of the most emotionally powerful episodes of this show that I’ve ever seen, as decisions were made that would alter lives, and a ticking time bomb was set off by Andy’s decision to tell Madison not to tell Ephram that she was pregnant with his child.

We saw Irv, as the narrator, say in the opening scene that dreams are our world turned upside down, and we saw that one particular dream haunted Andy Brown, a dream where Julia hadn’t died and he walked in to a restaurant and saw his family in the present day happily laughing and celebrating as his beloved Julia looked back at him and smiled, and in this dream, he looked so happy. One thing I noticed in this dream was when Andy looked at his reflection, he saw that he was clean shaven, but that Ephram and Delia were the age they are now, and not the age they were three years ago, and he seemed to feel disconcerted and confused about what that dream meant, but as we saw later, the continuation of that same dream took on a very different meaning.

I liked the talk that Andy and Ephram had when he told him that he had a “weird dream” as adults couldn’t call them nightmares, and Ephram suggested that they all get ice cream sundaes, and he told him the story of when he had a nightmare when he was a kid, Julia and him would get an ice cream sundae, and when Andy said that he didn’t remember that, Ephram gave him a knowing look and Andy, in sad resignation, said “I know, go figure.” I loved it when Ephram said “Hey Dad, they’re just dreams. That’s what Mom used to say,” showing the progress that this father and son had made.

It was hilarious seeing Harold announcing at the Abbott breakfast table that he was opening a bagel shop in Everwood and that he bought the old donut shop on Main Street and that he was going to become a multi-millionaire before he was 60 by running this “Bagel Enterprise,” much to the amused delight of Bright and Amy but to the bewilderment and consternation of Rose, and it was funny when Bright told Amy “Dad has gone mad crazy. I dig it!” It was also very prophetic when Bright said half the people in Everwood wouldn’t know the difference between a bagel and a donut!

I loved it when Amy came to see Ephram and she told him that he shouldn’t go to New York and she wanted them to have the Summer together without the pressures of school and that that there was some great energy surrounding them, but Ephram said that he had to go to New York because the opportunity at Julliard was something that he couldn’t pass up, and Amy, disappointed, left.

The scene where Madison went to see Andy was sad and surprising as initially, Andy seemed glad to see her and he caught her up on how Delia and Ephram were doing, and he told her that Delia really missed her and that she was irreplaceable. I didn’t like how Madison acted like she knew Ephram so well when Andy told her that he got into the Julliard Summer Program, saying that he played better when he was worried, because if she knew him so well, why did she cause him so much heartache? Andy’s entire demeanor changed however when she told him that she was late and she took a pregnancy test, and he looked shocked and he immediately started to ask her if she knew that Ephram was the one who got her pregnant, but before he could even ask the question, Madison said there was no one else, and he offered to have her tested there in his office.

I cracked up seeing Harold running the bagel shop as he talked down to Thurman, who was wearing a sign advertising his shop, and Thurman asked what kind of bagel he was, and Harold disdainfully answered “You’re a garlic bagel.” Then he frantically barked orders to Louise about what an “everything” bagel was, showing how much he was in over his head. It was hilarious seeing Mr. Benson order “a dozen glazed” making Bright’s earlier statement come true, and when Harold told Mr. Benson that it was a bagel shop and not a donut shop, he asked “do you have any jelly filled ones?”

I liked that Andy confided in Edna about Madison’s pregnancy, and he rightfully blamed himself for the whole situation for not putting a stop to the two of them, but he should have thought of that long before all this happened.

I loved the scene where Bright chided Ephram for turning Amy’s request that he stay for the summer down, telling Ephram that she was his “soulmate for life”, recognizing what all of us saw from the start, that they were meant to be together, and he told him that he should stay so that him and Amy could have their chance to figure things out.

In a pivotal scene we saw that Andy couldn’t bring himself to tell Ephram about Madison’s pregnancy as he saw how happy Ephram was and he didn’t want to ruin his happiness.

It was sad to see Harold’s dream of running a bagel shop enterprise fade away as it became very obvious that Everwood wasn’t the place for such a venture, and I loved how Rose offered him her quiet support as she let Harold rant and rave but she told him that she loved him.

In a decision that would have far-reaching and dire consequences, when Madison came to see Andy again, Andy told her that he didn’t tell Ephram that she was pregnant and that he had no intention of telling him, and when she reacted in a shocked and hurt manner, he said that Ephram had lost enough of his childhood when his mother died, but that he got lucky and Ephram got lucky and he managed to salvage that innocence, and if he heard this now, all that innocence would be gone and it would be the end of a childhood that isn’t finished yet. I thought that this was a ludicrous and cruel thing for Andy to say, because any “innocence” that Ephram had was lost as soon as Andy allowed him and Madison to date, which led to them having sex, which led to her becoming pregnant, so how would his asking her to keep her pregnancy a secret from Ephram preserve his innocence? He then asked Madison not to do this to him and when she told him that it was a mistake, he told her that it would be his mistake, and that he would see to her comfort and security while she made up her mind concerning what she wanted to do, and then, in an incredibly callous answer to her question over how she could keep her pregnancy from him, he said “you go.” The question I have is “go where?” Didn’t Madison live in Everwood? Didn’t she have a family? So, she should just “go” because Andy asked her to? It goes without saying that I can’t stand Madison, but I hated how Andy put all the blame for her pregnancy on her and how he didn’t want Ephram to face any responsibility for what he did, and his actions would have severe consequences in the future when a vengeful Madison revealed that she had Ephram’s baby and gave that baby up for adoption without telling him at the worst possible moment, and Andy had to admit to Ephram that he had ordered Madison not to tell him which destroyed all the progress that Andy had made with Ephram and set Ephram off on an emotional tailspin.

With that being said, Madison had ignored Andy’s repeated pleas to first not to get involved with Ephram and then to be careful with his heart because he was still a boy, so why did she decide to not ignore his request now and tell Ephram after she had his baby and given that baby up for adoption on the eve of his Julliard audition just to get back at Andy? I don’t blame her for the pregnancy, because Ephram shares equal responsibility for that pregnancy, but I do blame her for not doing the right thing and telling Ephram that she was pregnant much earlier. She owed Andy nothing at that point because he was no longer her employer but she did owe Ephram the truth.

I really wish that this whole storyline had never seen the light of day, because it haunted the show and the characters for the rest of the time that Everwood was on.

I loved the scene with Ephram and Amy on their picnic, and she asked him “is this supposed to be a sexy picnic?” and he answered “maybe.” I loved how Ephram poured his heart out to Amy and said that if he stayed, everything would be the way he always thought it would be between them: perfect, and that she was the one that he wanted to be with and that there was no questioning it or holding back, but he had to go to New York for so many reasons, and right now he had to make himself a priority, but he wanted her to wait for him and they shared a tender kiss.

I was so happy to see Andy go to see Harold and that Harold finally had gotten over his anger towards Andy, and they had a wonderful heart to heart talk, illustrating the deep respect and affection they had for each other underneath their verbal sparring. I loved seeing Andy tell Harold that he missed him and their love/hate relationship. I cried when Andy told Harold about his dream where he was in New York, and Julia, Ephram and Delia were there laughing, and he felt so happy, and no matter how hard he tried, the tragedy of losing Julia would always eclipse whatever good comes to him, and that he would take back the life he lost in a heartbeat. I loved how Harold said that dreams aren’t meant to be understood any more than tragedy can be averted, and that life happens and that the only certainty is that it keeps happening. I also thought that Harold was right when he said that Andy’s dream wasn’t based on reality as he had patients that he didn’t care about and a family that he neglected, and these words proved prophetic when Andy had his final dream at the end of the episode.

I loved that Andy then offered Harold a partnership in his practice which allowed him to return to the profession that he loved, and that Harold accepted that partnership in his usual curmudgeonly way, saying that he would live to regret this and refusing to shake Andy’s hand or hug him, but deep down, you know that he really appreciated Andy’s magnanimous gesture.

I loved seeing Ephram’s goodbyes at the bus station with Delia and Andy, as an upset Delia tried to act cold at first but then she shared a warm embrace with her brother, and Andy told Ephram that he was growing up and in words that had a lot more meaning than Ephram knew that he wanted to do the right thing for him as they also shared a warm embrace.

I also loved how Bright and Ephram said goodbye and Bright gave him another fake ID to use, but he warned him to stay away from the women there, and I loved seeing the progress that they had made as friends in the last year.

I loved seeing Delia ask Bright to go to a movie as they both were missing Ephram, and their friendship on this show was so sweet.

I absolutely loved it when Ephram got on the plane and saw Amy in the seat next to him waiting for him and I cracked up when Ephram said “You weren’t at the bus stop,” and Amy said “I was going to go because I didn’t want Bright to get suspicious, but then I remembered . . . .” and they both said “It’s Bright,” and Amy answered “exactly.”

I loved how Amy said that she had made up her mind to go with him to New York after their picnic and that the waiting for him thing was very romantic in a Victorian kind of way but then she realized that she’s not very Victorian, so she was coming to New York with him. I loved how Ephram said “so you’re coming to New York with me” twice, and the sheer joy and bliss on his face was so wonderful to see.

It was sad to see Andy’s final dream that started out the same joyful way as his initial dream, but then when he interacted with Julia and Ephram and Delia, he saw that he had missed their celebration for Ephram getting into the Julliard Summer program and that he had forgotten about it entirely, and Ephram disdainfully sneered at him and left immediately, and Julia told Delia to leave and have Ephram hail them all a cab. We saw that if Julia had lived, Andy would have remained the too busy for his family workaholic and neglectful father he had always been, and Julia told him “Don’t feel sorry for forgetting Andy. Feel sorry for yourself. There’s a whole world happening and you’re just asleep, and it scares me so much to think what it would take to wake you up,” and then she left, and Delia, Ephram and her rode off in a cab, and Andy was left alone. I feel that this dream was so key to everything that Andy’s had gone through since Julia’s death, and her death truly became the tragic event that finally did wake him up.

Overall, I feel that this was an incredibly powerful episode that would have momentous consequences in the future as the stage was set for Andy to once again lose everything due to the decision that he had made.

Jerry D

Great commentary Michelle as always.

Aww, thanks Michelle! I'm so glad that I recommended Everwood to you and that you started watching it and posting about it. This board owes so much to you, and it continues to thrive due to you and Betty, so I consider it such an honor that you listened to my recommendation.

It's wonderful how this show brought so many of us together.

I missed Nina too and Delia was hardly in the episode as well, but there was a lot going on in this episode so I understand.

I really loved seeing Bright evolve and move forward in this season and seeing Bright and Ephram's friendship develop and prosper in this season. I also love how he spoke for the audience when he said that Ephram and Amy were forever soulmates.

That was such a sweet scene and it spoke to the closeness between them.

Yes, Harold's bagel business was bound to fail with the ignorant townspeople of Everwood, but he was so desperate to try something to take care of his family after his profession was taken away from him. If he opened a bagel shop in Fair Lawn New Jersey it would have been a great success!

I felt so sorry for him when he said that all he ever wanted to be was a doctor, but the ignoramuses in the town along with his greedy and overly cautious insurance company had taken that away from him until Andy came to his rescue.

I absolutely loved every Ephram and Amy scene in this episode and I cheered that at long last the timing was right for them to be together.

I loved seeing the mutual respect and admiration that Andy and Harold had for each other in this episode and I felt so happy and relieved that their friendship was back on track. I also loved the advice that Harold gave Andy about his dream and how far he had come since he came to Everwood.

Treat Williams really was amazing in this episode, and I loved how he showed the different sides of Andy's character, and as always, he gave so much depth to a very complicated and conflicted character.

The differences between the first and second dream were very telling, because in the first dream his family was happy and enjoying each others' company, but that was because they hadn't seen him yet, and he was happy seeing them happy, but as soon as they saw him all their demeanors changed and Ephram left immediately, soon followed by Delia and Julia, and Julia chided him for neglecting his family once again and Andy realized that if Julia had lived, he wouldn't have changed at all despite the many empty promises that he made to her to change, and it took her death to finally wake him up from his dream world where he was insulated from his family by his work and he had to become a father to his children and a concerned and caring physician in Everwood. I also think that dream did foreshadow the later disaster of the Madisongate reveal as all the progress that he had made with his son was swept away.

As I said in my commentary, I can't entirely fault Madison here, and I do feel that Andy was unnecessarily cruel to her. Granted, I found it ironic that after ignoring Andy's pleas for her to not get involved with Ephram and not to break his heart, she decided to heed his advice to her (and I do feel that he basically ordered her to not tell Ephram) and wait for so long to tell Ephram about having his child and giving his child up for adoption after it had all transpired. If she had told Ephram earlier, it would have still been a difficult situation for everyone involved, but it wouldn't have had the devastating impact that it ended up having. If she did tell Ephram right away though, what would have happened? He probably wouldn't have gone to New York and he probably might not have embarked on a romantic relationship with Amy, and he may have well have gotten obsessed with her again and wanted to get back together with her, and at 16 (or 17 by the time the child was born) how could he have been a father to a child? Would he have come to the mutual decision with Madison to give that child up for adoption? I couldn't see him telling her to terminate the pregnancy, but if she stayed in Everwood, everyone would have known she was pregnant pretty quickly, and their illegal affair would have been further exposed, so no matter how you look at it, the pregnancy storyline was a disaster that did harm to the characters and the show itself.

I'd also like to say though that we've all commented that Madison was the adult in the relationship and that she should never have gotten into a relationship with Ephram, but a 20 year old, while technically an adult, isn't truly an adult yet in many cases and in many ways. When I look back on myself at 20, I don't think that I acted like an adult, as I was more concerned with having a good time than I was with being responsible and heeding my parents' advice, and we saw that Madison was very immature for a 20 year old and she went ahead with her relationship with Ephram knowing that it was wrong and she constantly gave him mixed signals and she both enabled his obsessive infatuation with her and was repulsed and scared of his behavior, which she brought on, so while it was true that she was the adult in their relationship, she didn't act like an adult.

I completely agree. This really was an incredible episode.

Jerry D

I really liked seeing those quotes from the original commentary thread for this episode Michelle.

Thanks for posting them.

everwoodfan52

The difference between the way that Ephram used to react when Andy walked into his room and the way he acts now is so profound. The two of them have come a long long way!

Typical, but not a bad idea. I don't know what is the matter with these townspeople! Bagels in my neck of the woods do not last on the shelves!

It turned out he was right...unfortunately.

It was adorable, because it was Amy, but at the same time....I thought it was kind of nervy to expect Ephram to give up such an opportunity.

It was! And then Madison had to enter and interrupt the conversation.

Julia's last comment said it all. "I can't imagine what it would take to wake you up." I guess it took her death to do that..

- .
Maybe it was better that she went to Andy, because if she had gone to another doctor, Ephram would have known about the pregnancy sooner.

- I was happy that Andy didn't want Ephram to know, but I kind of felt sorry for Madison here. Andy kind of made it obvious that he just wanted to sweep her away.

I thought they were so idiotic here!


- I didn't remember that at first Andy was intending to tell Ephram, but when he saw how enthusiastic Ephram was about the summer, Andy changed his mind.

I wish Bright remembered this conversation the end of season 4 when he told Ephram the Amy ship had sailed!

His grave expression is such a contrast from his usually twinkling facade..

Very different from how she acted at the dinner table when Harold announced his new venture.

One of my favorite scenes of the entire series. Of course there had to be a better option than tuna for that sexy picnic! lol

One of their better kisses.

Perfect solution!!


So adorable that bright and Delia hung out together after Ephram left.



- Ephram was literally on cloud nine in this scene.

Jerry D

Betty, you missed my comment that if Harold opened up a bagel shop in Fair Lawn New Jersey it would have been a great success! He'd have a lot of competition though!

We have a bagel shop near us called Brooklyn Cafe that does good business.

everwoodfan52

The progress these two made is just phenomenal. Too bad we know that this progress is going to make a bad turn thanks to Madison.

Amy was disappointed, but what she asked Ephram to do was alot and I'm glad Ephram didn't just give in like he might have done in the old days. Ephram has definitely become stronger and more confident.
I had forgotten that scene. Andy was intending to tell Ephram.

I really felt sorry for Harold here. He really made a cool looking shop and the bagels looked great! It should have been more successful.
Thanks so very much, Jerry!! I am so happy I decided to watch this wonderful show and join this forum.

everwoodfan52

I did miss that comment! There is a great bagel shop on River Rd in Fair Lawn that I just love!
My town of Wayne also has several bagel shops and they all do fantastically. Everwoodians are idiots!

Jerry D

I used to go to that one and it really made great bagels. There was another one on Saddle River Road that made fantastic bagels. My favorite bagels are salt bagels. Whenever I go back to New Jersey, I make sure that I get my fixes: bagels, Nathan's Hot Dogs, baked goods from a real bakery (as opposed to store bakeries, which can't compare) and White Castle Hamburgers.

Yes they are! Actually we had a bagel shop in Conroe that ended up closing down. I guess not enough rednecks like bagels!