jopace1970

I agree.

COOLCAT200

I do understand why Pacey was so upset. He was in love with her so when it happened it hurt him really bad.

Pace & Jo

I think that Andie truly was a good person and this mistake was just that, a mistake. She knew that it was wrong and it ended up costing her the thing that she wanted the most. I think that she did actually deserve another chance, but Pacey would of had to find some inner strength to give it to her. I understand that Pacey just didn't have that in him and they ultimately were unable to reconcile. Andie changed Paceys life and I think he owed a lot of who he became to her. That still doesn't give her a right to break his heart and if she, the person who changed his life and who he loved dearly could do that, then he probably lost all trust he had in everyone he knew.

coldwater1010

This I have to disagree with. I agree that Andie was good for Pacey in the sense that she believed in him when alot of people in his life didn't and encouraged him to believe he was capable of more, but I don't think he owed alot of who became to her or that he wouldn't have been the man he became without her because I think, despite his frat boy tendencies in s1 alot of the qualities he possessed in later seasons were in evidence ins1. I also think as much as Andie was there for him in s2 he was there for her just as much when she needed him to be, even when she tried to push him away. So I think he'd already more than paid her back for the good she did for him if we want to talk about quid pro quo so I don't think he was under any obligation to take her back just because of that.

Pace & Jo

I never said that he was obligated to take her back. I think that if they did get back together just because he felt like he owed it to her, than that wouldn't be a good foundation for a new start. He had to want to start over.

To me, there was a big change from season 1 Pacey to season 2 Pacey. Season one Pacey was flunking out of school, sleeping with his english teacher, etc. Season two actually started out the same way, but when Andie came along, she inspired him to be different, to be better.

I'm not saying that Pacey didn't have any good qualities back in season 1, because he did. I guess he never really showed how caring he could be until he started his relationship with Andie. Even Dawson initially thought that Paceys "metamorphosis" was because of Andie.

I do agree with you that Pacey did do his fair share of helping Andie out when she needed him the most. When she tried to push him away, he was right there and he wasn't leaving.

I guess my point is that I think Andie helped Pacey grow into a more mature, responsible person. Maybe the maturing process he went through is what ultimately helped him decide whether or not he could give her that second chance.

hshapir2

actually, Dawson says it is not just because of Andie here in season 2. Pacey was caring in season 1. Pacey punched out that guy when he was trying to take advantage of Joey, His talk with Jen in Pretty Woman about how she's not a bad person, just human. Taking Joey to see her father's,

Pace & Jo

I added the word "initially" in my first response because that is what I meant to say.

Like I said... Pacey did have good qualities back in season 1, but what he did in season one doesn't compare to the things he did in season 2. He helped rescue Mrs. McPhee from the mini-mart, he stood up for Jack when he had to read his poem in class, he pulled through in the end of "The All-nighter" so everyone would be prepared for the exam, he helped Andie/Joey with their election campaign, he helped Andie when she was seeing Tim, etc...

coldwater1010

My point though was that all those qualities were there - protecting people he cared about, going out of his way for then when they needed it, playing the hero and so on were all qualities we witnessed in s1 - when he stood up for Tamara, when he looked out for Joey at that party, when he took her to see her father just because she asked him too were all evidence that he could be caring. The big difference between s1 and s2 is that first of all there was more emphasis on that aspect of his personality in s2 as compared to s1 so it was more obvious because in s1 there was more emphasis on the fact that he was Dawson's sidekick and also in s2 the circumstances in which he exercized were more extreme so it was more noticeable.

I'm not saying that Andie wasn't a good influence in his life because she was and I was glad she was there for him because it seemed like someone needed to be at that point. I just think that sometimes she gets more credit than she really deserves as if she reinvented his total personality which I don't think is true. But that aside my main point was whatever Andie did for Pacey in s2, he gave back to her equally so I don't think she deserved to be taken back after she cheated solely because of the things she did in s2. I think once she cheated on him she pretty much forfeited any expectations where he was concerned and so whatever decision he made - whether he took her back or whether as he did he decided he couldn't trust her again the only thing he had to consider was what was right for him and I think he was more than entitled to do so and her acting like he didn't was pretty hateful to me.

Pace & Jo

Well said coldwater1010.

I can see what you're saying. I don't think that Andie "reinvented" Pacey, but she definitely made him look at himself in a different way, especially what he wanted out of life. I think in season 2, they were able to provide each other with what the other person needed at that point. In the beginning of season 3, Pacey didn't need Andie to boost his self-confidence and I really don't think that Andie needed Pacey like she said she did. Right after the break up she was "full steam ahead", applying to Harvard, etc. Even though she was heart broken and did some crazy things in the beginning of season 3, she seemed to be on the right track. I think it was best that they atleast took some time apart.

jopace1970

He took the blame to protect Tamara too. I think Andie gets way too much credit and she even told him she was wrong to try and change him.

Jerry D

I absolutely believe that Andie deserved a second chance. To be sure, what she did was wrong, but she was in a lonely and vulnerable position, not to mention still in the throes of her mental illness, when she slept with Mark, once, and they both immediately regretted what they had done, and she was ridden with guilt when she saw Pacey, so she confessed what she had done. She could have hidden what she did from Pacey, but she chose to be honest with him, and although I can definitely understand the pain and the sense of betrayal that Pacey felt, especially at his age, I wish that he could have found it in his heart to forgive her and continue their relationship.

The one positive development that I saw in Season Two was the wonderful romantic relationship of Pacey and Andie, who I truly feel, to this day, were the best romantic couple ever depicted on Dawson’s Creek, and who had the most mutually loving and supportive relationship I’ve ever seen on that show. Andie opened up Pacey to a whole new world, a world of love with someone his own age, (what a concept, huh? ) and she bolstered his confidence in such a way that he was able, for the first time in his life, to put his “slacker” image behind him, and obtain success, both scholastically, and, more important, as a human being. Andie didn’t force Pacey to improve his grades or to become someone that he wasn’t, rather, she inspired Pacey to accomplish more than he himself believed he could accomplish, and she was the first person in Pacey’s life that really believed in him. Pacey managed to turn his life around, confident in the love of Andie, and I, for one, found that to be a wonderful development. Pacey, in turn, became Andie’s hero, sticking by her as her mental condition deteriorated, and acting in a truly noble and mature manner.

We had always seen evidence of Pacey’s kindness and intelligence that lay hidden behind his outwardly affable and apathetic exterior, but it was Andie who helped Pacey, and all of us, realize what a truly wonderful human being that he was. Pacey also found the courage to stand up to his father when his father insulted Andie, and Andie’s subsequent phone conversation with Mr. Witter allowed him and Pacey to achieve a true breakthrough in their relationship, and allowed them to interact as a father and son truly should for the first time in their lives. There was a sweetness to the relationship of Pacey and Andie that I found to be exhilarating, and it served as a nice counterpoint to the ever volatile and unstable relationship of Dawson and Joey. I actually had tears in my eyes in “His Leading Lady” when Pacey said to her: “I know, Andie, I know and I can help. I know I can. And I'm not going to turn away from you, Andie. After all, you've done for me. And certainly not when you need me the most. We can do this together and I know that I can help you,” and a tearful Andie said to Pacey “How do you know you can help me?” and Pacey answered “Because, Andie, I love you.” That was one of the most moving scenes I have ever witnessed on a television show, and I truly thought that Pacey and Andie were one of the sweetest, and most loving couples I have ever seen. I was especially moved when I watched Pacey help Andie when her mother had a breakdown at the supermarket in “The Reluctant Hero,” as he said precisely the right thing to calm Mrs. McPhee down and diffuse a volatile and embarrassing situation for Andie and her family. Now, that, my friends, was the Pacey Witter that I loved, and he was never more noble than he was at that moment, and in that season, because he was with someone who he truly loved, and who truly loved him, and Pacey and Andie’s wonderful relationship brought out the best in this incredible character. I loved Pacey and Andie, and I loved the person that Pacey became because he was in a loving relationship with Andie. Therefore, I really wish that Pacey could have found it in his heart to give Andie a second chance, because I simply loved them together.

COOLCAT200

I agree Jerry they really had such a great relationship in season 2.

jopace1970

I think once she lied about the attempted rape to get him back I lost any respect I had for her. That was a sign that she was still mentally unstable because I don't think she was a bad person.

Meredith did such an incredible job of acting in Secrets and Lies because I still get mad at her when I watch it. Go Meredith! Hee.

Princess67895

Jerry D, What a beautifully written response and ITA! I don't have anything else to add because you said it all!

* Heather *

If Pacey and Andie ever had a chance of reconnecting after the incident, it was a non issue after the ex-sex in whatever epidsode that was. It was clear that Pacey no longer felt the same way toward Andie as he had previously, and they would have never worked after that. And I agree, that season 4 could have held some possiblility of Pacey and Andie starting over if it hadn't been for Joey. Once Pacey fell in love with Joey, no other woman ever had a chance with him. I mean, look at his track record...who knows how many one night stands (no commitment), Audrey (who he admitidley never loved), Virginia Madsen (married=no commitment).

The question isn't whether or not Andie deserved a second chance, it's too subjective. It's whether or not Pacey could have given her that chance and the answer is an obvious no.