Mignonette

Hi Arinna! Yes, they could trust only each other. Treachery was everywhere, even with their own brother! Ces was so sad when he had to lie to her about Djem's death. He accepted there were things he couldn't tell her, but lying to her really hurt him. Like Alex said, she was the one pure thing in his world

Hi Alex! I'm glad you're feeling better!

Oh ok, you were using "romantic" as a euphemism for the dreaded thing we're not supposed to talk about in a forum about sibling incest

And Charlotte the virgin was good at sex? Awww, I think you have a crush on her, Alex. You've mentioned 3-somes, so would probably want her, Lu, Guila, & Caterina (did I leave out anyone? Vanozza? Ursula? Micheletto's mama? ) to all get together and I'm sorry, (not sorry ) I just had to go there. You're so easy to pick on, Alex, being the only guy here

Exactly! Yes!! That's why I keep fighting for everyone to see what Ces carrying her to bed on her wedding night was all about! An 18 year old guy doesn't carry his sister to the marital bed like a bride! AND he did it in front of her new husband - in front of everyone! It was an insult designed to humiliate and send a message to Sforza = SHE'S MINE & I'm ********** dangerous when it comes to her!

That was the message in Ces' menacing look to Sforza when he poured him some wine. He wanted Sforza to have a little flash of fear that there might be poison in that glass. He knew he couldn't directly threaten him, but he needed him to know he was a man he shouldn't cross, so he'd better treat his sister well! Ces was still a kid, only 18, but he was a man in love who'd just had to face HIS woman being married off to another man & fearing she'd be maltreated! Can you imagine how that felt?

Sforza talked about that humiliation when he ripped off her gown and raped her. It's why he was so vicious to her. He didn't hate the Borgias until Ces humiliated him by bringing his "whore mother" to the wedding party, then carrying his bride off to bed like HE was the bridegroom, and to top it off - coming back downstairs much later and telling him to leave his own wife alone! Ces started the whole bloody conflict with the Sforzas that night & planted the incest seed in Sfora's mind.

HUSBAND was a repeating theme. In season 2, he joyfully lived the marriage fantasy with her. In season 3, she spent her wedding night in his bed and told him he'd be her husband that night. He spent both of her wedding nights in bed with her! The first wedding night scene showed us only a few minutes of him longing for her as she slept. But he spent a LONG time with her, cause when he returned downstairs, the party was ending.

Ces wanted to be her husband in every way, including taking her virginity on her wedding night, but in the end, he couldn't do it, cause she was still innocent and he was uncertain how she'd feel. He had an obsessive, murderously jealous need to own her = Mine! He got rid of both her husbands. Husband #2 lying dead beside them as he made love to her showed that he'd finally achieved his lifelong goal: HE was Lu's husband. Like you said, Alex, that scene bookended her first wedding night when he carried her to the marital bed. THIS was his conflict the entire time: be her husband vs her hero. Possess her sexually vs be her knight in armour. Evil vs good. The devil vs God. When Lu said god sat in the room with them, Ces said God or the devil, cause that was his conflict. Lu had ZERO conflict She just wanted HIM and he was the ONLY thing she wanted

Yes, you could see the darkness was already there in scene 1 and the things they experienced allowed that darkness to grow & be brought into their awareness. And yes, they absolutely had light, both of them did. They were mostly light in the beginning. Especially early in season 1, the darkness was 90% dormant, cause they hadn't yet experienced the horrible circumstances that would require it to manifest for their very survival.

It was a fascinating character study to watch the darkness come out stronger and stronger with each new adversity, while their light slowly diminished. Being a Borgia meant having darkness - a stain. Rodrigo had it inside him, too, and admitted it to Ces in s3e9. When Ces fully realized his father's darkness, their relationship flourished. Like with Lu, when he finally saw her darkness, he claimed her.

Alex, what you said about Ces being forced to take the cloth was spot on! It was the same conflict: good vs evil. He didn't really want to be good, but hadn't yet developed the je ne sais quoi (idk the english word ) to fully embrace the evil inside himself. He was aware of the conflict inside, cause he told Ursula, "I have tried to be other than who I am and I have failed". He was too hungry for his father's love to risk letting the darkness loose

I think Ces rejected the cloth cause the darkness was already inside him. It's why he wanted to be a soldier. He had a bloodlust and hunger for power. He killed innocent people (della Rovere's maid, for ex) with no remorse. In fact, he was very callous and joked with Micheletto while looking at her bloody body. Sure, he justified it as being for the good of the family, but someone without darkness would feel remorse and it would eat away at them. You know I ADORE Ces - let's face it tho, the boy had a switch in his brain that allowed him to become a monster. His inner darkness wasn't the result of bad circumstances (like being forced into the clergy). Bad circumstances were the result of his inner darkness. The same for Lu, which is why I keep saying she was Ces' alter ego.