bonnie51

true but then it makes no sense to not kill tracy when she was two feet from him.

yeah, yeah, he saved killer frost. given that cisco was temporarily incapacitated and barry's been no match for him 1 x 1.... he could have easily quickly killed tracy and then snatched up killer frost. not to mention... it also seemed like he was watching that whole battle go down and if he knew that killer frost would ultimately get knocked out by vibe... why not interfere earlier and prevent that from happening?

or why not go to the university before the team knew that they needed tracy in the first place and kill her then? because obviously he knew who she was and what she did to him in the future....


so the idea that he needs things to change i understand and generally accept... but at the same time... so much of what he seems to do indicates that he's trying to get the script to play out the same. because remember, unless he goes into the speed force, he never becomes savitar really either. since that's where he loses the rest of his mind, etc. so that's part of his origin story.

not to mention "when i controll all time" implies he thinks he has some way around that issue. which i hope and pray isn't completely dumb.

I'm sure it does but i imagine it also fits into hers. and regardless of who it benefits more... cisco's not loosing his hands and i imagine worst case scenario caitlain emerges and spares him, etc... or something else, idk. but one way or the other, cisco's not losing his hands.

yes, but my point was that does nothing for big picture. without a broken barry from iris death... the rest of team flash would continue to be an issue. and since we saw the future where we first learned KF / Savitar did team up, that either lead to or occurred after Iris's death leading to emo barry to savitar, etc. so i just don't see how it turning into him wanting her to kidnap and not kill iris makes a ton of sense.... not that savitar existing because the guys were dicks to him makes much sense either.

not to mention... given KF's disdain for what she sees as her suffering while barry got his happy ending with iris "you ended up with iris, what do you care?" it makes no linear sense for her to to have that issue then turn around and think that savibarry would care anymore than original barry if he ended up with iris and happy and basically trade one slighted existence for another from her POV.

and i'm no longer as 100% certain, given her verbiage before finding out he had lost his memories...that KF is totally submissive to him either. he might be in control because his from the future but i don't think she sees it as him being the boss, etc... there was a little too much sass in that scene if that's what they're going for. and perhaps that will be her undoing with savitar, we shall see.


i understand that and that is indeed a difficult pill to swallow, so to speak, the way they explained it is even worse. had it actually made sense their rationale and explanation there was a very tiny chance that i'd accept it - it does appear to be where we are at.

and while i can't put it past the writers.... that makes no sense.

savitar literally said he needed iris to die so he can be born. the entire logic of his existence is based around that. and i don't think there's enough logic when they came up with this crap for them to be like "lol... no, here's what is really going on"

again, won't totally put it past the writers / show. since zoom started out as a villain who wanted to kill barry, then he wanted his speed and wanted him to get stronger, then after getting his speed decided he needed barry's speed to race him to create his world destroying machine......

we're just going to have to disagree on that.