Oh, hey, I got a response after all. Cool. Let's see...



Err ... no. Not even close. Where the heck did you get that? I'm saying it's not okay for anybody to treat anybody like dirt, but some people only seem to have a problem when it's a boy mistreating a girl.



Are we watching the same show? Because I don't think Glee is sending this message al all. The subtext I'm getting is: "Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to indulge in casual sex, go right ahead. It's your life. However, it may leave you feeling empty." Under their jaded demeanors, Puck, Brittany and Santana all seem forlorn and looking for true love. Ditto for Finn, Artie and Quinn after their sexual experiences. Where's the sexism in that? I don't see it.



I agree, but I'm sure the writers are working up to that. Character development doesn't happen overnight. And ditto for Puck.



But it's okay when girls are insensitive?



First, some girls like guys who are arrogant; they see it as a sign of masculinity and confidence. If you don't believe me, take a look at the number of Puck plus whoever threads on this board. Second, a "bad boy" isn't the same thing as a total scumbag, just like a "bad girl" doesn't equal a psychotic whore. I think the author is losing perspective.



Yes, I agree. Having sex with a woman who's too drunk to say no is rape. Of course, lots of people get a little tipsy before getting laid. Is this about Quinn? Because I've seen no indication that she considers herself a rape victim. But if it's not about Quinn, why are we talking about this subject at all? Puck and Artie swagger around a little and suddenly we're discussing rape? How did we make that conversational leap? This sounds like an over-the-top attempt to push emotional buttons. What's next, Hitler?



Oh, look, Hitler!



I agree that Glee is shaping a generation of viewers and has a solid responsibility to do that well. Unlike the author being quoted here, I think they're more or less doing their job. Yes, Puck is arrogant and aggressive and yes, it gets him sex partners, but it has also left him lonely and loveless. That's a depiction of selfishness, not an endorsement. And I don't see how it can be called sexist since Santana does the same thing. Both characters were created as insensitive, bullying anti-heroes that are slowly transforming into decent human beings, and neither walks around with a sign that says "Everything I say reflects the opinions of the writers."



I think Artie was quite a bit more depressed. He was mourning the loss of his girlfriend; Quinn just felt fat that day. And, no, it's not exactly the same. Puck used booze and far more peer pressure, so yes, he was a much bigger jerk than Brittany. Regardless, exploiting someone in an emotionally fragile state is insensitive.

Okay, final conclusion time. I think these complaints about sexism are misplaced. So two guys made a few obnoxious remarks. So what? On this show, obnoxious remarks fly fast and furious. I think the real reason B/S shippers are pissed at Puck and Artie is because they are obstacles, plain and simple. Television in general and Glee in particular already has plenty of boy-crazy girls. I don't think the writers are implying that drooling over males is a female's duty, but given the lack of hundred-percent-lesbian characters, I'm sure some frustrated viewers feel that's precisely what they're saying. There's the (unintentional) sexism: so far, the show has failed to reach out to gay women the way it's reached out to gay men.

Good talk, everybody.