scclarke

I think the writers hate Barry. They make me want to quit this show so bad, but I can't because of Grant.

FireQueen

You've been saying this for a long time At first I didn't think it was necessary to reduce the number of people who appear in every episode but I've changed my mind. You've been right all along For me it doesn't apply only to Caitlin. It applies to everyone. Almost every character has had episodes where their presence wasn't necessary.

I don't know how to take that scene tbh. Barry sliding the coat off Iris' shoulders was suggestive but then there was no furniture in that apartment Considering how romantic the scene was I'm having a hard time picturing them doing it on the floor or the kitchen counter. I don't think it fits with their personalities or with that specific moment, especially if we have to view it as their first time I guess it can go either way and only time will tell. I'm still hoping they'll have their first time in their new furnished apartment when the show comes back from hiatus

TF is not explicit at all when it comes to sex so when discussing WA first time I'd rather not think about what the writers did on Arrow or any other CW show. I try to compare them to other Flash couples and since both Eddie/Iris and Barry/Patty got a little bit more (nothing too explicit but with those couples you know for sure they were having sex...) I will not be satisfied if that's all we get for Barry and Iris. Given that they are the main couple they should be given more than those temporary ships anyway. If it doesn't happen, I'll suspect something sketchy is going on...

bonnie51

agreed and if done right, it would further the stories. not just barry's. yes, all roads lead back to him by and large, but the show could become more balanced.

obviously regular characters have X amount of episodes or screen time they need to met. but it just pains me almost to see everyone in a room at star labs where they all have one line and the rest of the time are basically looking at each other and then barry runs off, there's a couple lines of science or something about how to beat the metahuman he's facing, then back to standing around.

the show's basically wasting characters. what it should be is having - largely joe as the police presenance - now julian with barry as csi's and iris as the reproter - then cisco and caitlin as science -

each character in their fields should have a piece of the puzzle to put together - or at least most every episode. maybe some episodes are more science and joe/iris do less, then the vice versea is also true. maybe its a meta with a big rap sheet or someone known to a community in particular so there's a need for a reporter, idk... but the point is everyone works together at putting the puzzle together by the end of the episode.

and then that is how you can introduce new characters and have it be somewhat organic. maybe someone iris meets while investigating something pops up or they were part of what was happening but hid and now is intrigued as to what she's up to. or with joe, etc... maybe there's an unfriendly cop who doesn't want to cooperate or looks more into the flash etc...

again, i don't have all the answers, clearly. but i do feel pretty confident that there is a much better way than this method of everyone stand around - make a couple one liners and alternate turns anchors or emotional catalysts for each other. sure, that's stuff has its place too but it doesn't need to happen all the time.

right now they're basically making their world really small. and i just don't know why. i think every actor or actress on the show has their merits and largely, maybe an area or two where they can maybe improve - jesse and tom maybe not quite as much but i chalk that up to experience and just being awesome but i'm sure there are fans of the show out there who wish they did something better in their scenes -


point being, use them. let their characters grow. yes, barry is the titular character and needs to be front and center, granted. 1000% true. but i think having these characters develop some on their own while still being connected to barry and being seen going off and doing things is not a bad thing.

crap, this show loves science so much have caitlin and or cisco go to some conference or some crap - we don't see all of it, lol - but maybe they run into someone who gives them an idea for barry's suit or XYZ and they come back to the team with it and maybe whoever they met there is a meta human threat or comes to town a couple weeks later etc, etc, etc. rather than just having jay show up stalking them kinda right from the beginning this introduces us to them before they enter the show full time...

in some ways basically the pre-pilot cross over with barry. he got out there, interacted with characters ands et up who barry was as a character before the pilot launched. and how they handled the flash backs with hartley somewhat, etc. they're not using these wonderful people or if they are, i don't feel like they are using them to their full potential. the show is pretty good, all things being equal, but i just get the feeling that it has the potential to be great and could be great and i hate settling for good if there potential is there for greatness.maybe the writing wouldn't be able to keep up, etc, but i'd love it if they tried to branch out a bit more and give all their characters a chance to develop more

see, that's why i initially didn't mention it. i wasn't sure either... was it just a romantic moment and kiss and etc and then maybe they eventually go back to the west family home? i wasn't really sure how to take that scene....

if it was more heat of the moment thing then sure, maybe it happens on the counter top or floor but like you said, it didn't really seem like that kind of moment... so i guess we'll have to wait and see.

if it was, that's just disrespectful. even on a show that is fairly chaste - that's just wrong, if it indeed was. heck, barry and linda got further than that if that was indeed the intro to their first time.

fair point about not comparing it to other shows. and i agree about them being the main couple. they SHOULD get if not the best scene the show has ever had, then at worst, the best scene the show's ever had when it was aired. there's no good reason for them not to. if they are at all going to try to do it justice then it certainly does need to eclipse eddie/iris and barry/patty and whatever that exactly means for the show...

if something at a later date surpasses it or comes close... its not good, but the show would have made it the original standard barer. Ideally it stands the test of time but it would not be the first show where it might not. but it needs to be better than anything we have seen. if not... then the need to look a little more closely at how the show is treating them is fair and needed... its one thing for me to not be much of a fan, but the show needs to treat them better and needs to treat them right regarding this. if it doesn't... then there could be something going on.

if patty or eddie comes back, etc... fine. whatever ends up happening ship wise, happens. but there's a difference between going in a different direction and just... the show lacking tact and respect for something that deserves and needs respect. however you feel about something there are real people playing the roles and characters and they're trying hard. i've seen couples or characters where a show's loathing of them was almost easy to see on screen. so again, it just needs to be the best of the intimate scenes the show has had. maybe a different writer or producer comes in in season 5 and writes or directs a better one, i can live with that... but not the idea of them short changing their primary couple and the story they themselves are going with right now so blatantly if that was indeed supposed to convey their first time

FireQueen

And that's the reason why I would be mad if it happened off screen. A three episodes LI gets more than the leading lady? I didn't like that scene because Barry was uncomfortable and in a rush to get away so it's not like I envy the Barry/Linda shippers for getting a moment I'd want for WA. The issue is that the show was more explicit with them. They were half-dressed and she was on top of him. With Barry and Iris they didn't even show us the kiss. I think the editing was awkward as they cut away as soon as they touched lips.

If I have to be honest, I didn't like any of the almost sex scenes or post-sex scenes this show has had so far. There was nothing sexy or romantic about any of them but then I used to think it was done on purpose because Eddie/Iris, Barry/Linda and Barry/Patty were temporary. But if that's the best the show can do then maybe it's better if WA don't get a sex scene at all

If I were writing this show I'd give WA a scene similar to the Barry/Linda one but with the intensity of the make-out session Barry and Iris had in 3x04.

I agree I wasn't thinking in terms of endgame since a lot of couples have sex on screen and then they barely last half a season. It's the other things that they've done with Barry and Iris that strengthen their odds at being the endgame/main love story of the show. Still, they have to show something when it comes to sex too.

bonnie51

sounds reasonable

that they do. and i do admit, i'm a little curious as to why the show is so chaste when it comes to sex scenes... i mean, i don't care a ton but even by CW standards, its a little less revealing than other shows

Summer Falls

You both make good points i think tbe sex thing is the Cw side

FireQueen

I think it has more to do with the EPs prouding themselves on creating a show parents can watch with their kids. I doubt allusions to sex can be traumatic for kids, especially when the EPs have no problem showing these horrific death scenes. They can have Savitar stab Iris through the heart but a scene with Barry and Iris kissing and cuddling under the sheets is too much?

I think Iris is Barry's only girlfriend who hasn't seen him shirtless. Cisco and Caitlin are not dating him and they have seen him shirtless The show must rectify this pronto

bonnie51

haha, right.... the show has no problem with that. not only iris but "jay"'s death in season 2 with a hand just kind of hanging out in the middle of his chest or barry's dad, etc... or hell, the way they had eobard be all like "actually, she's not" right before killing her to reset the time line.

none of that could be traumatic as half naked people or making out etc

so in their eyes, graphic / disturbing death scenes is

ah! half naked people =

at least we know what the shpw's standards are

hmm...that's ironic ie shirtless. i'm going to have go thru my memory back because i figured she had at some time - perhaps even as he was just getting patched up at star labs?

hereforshorttime

I don't think there is a big fan base that wants to see Grant shirtless. I saw the gifs of Grant and Candice kissing they were nice they fit so good together. I don't need to see a sex scene(but they can do it since I love you Grant but I'm not watching CW The Flash) My rant is I'm tired of the who's faster Wally or Barry so tired of 52 and the JL sick of nit picking storylines and is The Flash really that bad that The Invasion the Flash placed last according to people even behind Supergirl which wasn't even a factor. but truth is it did the best in TV rating I guess that's what really matters.

scarletspuffyfan

i think if that last scene was meant to indicate sex it should have been even more clear. they should have kept the promo version of the scene, with the close-up shot of the coat being removed and hitting the floor all dramatic like.

that's pretty unmistakeable.

their first time being under their coats on the floor of an empty house doesn't seem that romantic, but i guess it snowing outside makes it better.

FireQueen

The only scene that comes to mind is the one where she patches him up. He wasn't completely shirtless but at least she saw his abs

The optimist in me thinks that they've chosen to go with a less explicit version because there will be something better and more clear in 3B

hereforshorttime

I want to rant but I did it on other threads. I'm going to marathon the episodes I recorded because I did record going to see how bad this show is.

bonnie51

well, somethings bette than nothing i guess

i'm sure that day is coming though


there is that hope. i hope for the show's sake they understand that regardless of how much they pride themselves on keeping things rather chaste, etc... there are certain things that with the story they are telling at the moment on the show that need a certain level of respect afforded to them...

having a more romantic / passionate at least intro to their first time is one of those things

hereforshorttime

watched it but missing an episode for some reason Paradox didn't record. shows stupid how did Barry change the time when he had no speed? reverse Flash is the one who took him back to kill his mother and said the time is fixed to his liking? confused. why are people saying he timed travel again like he did it on purpose on the last episode? he was thrown back after he threw the stone the fandom sickens me. tired of stop changing the timeline Barry or the really offensive one stop putting your dick in the timeline. I know it joking but sometimes I don't think so. also I wish Grant would stop replying to haters.

hereforshorttime

People who think there's nothing wrong with Barry's writing. I have nothing to say. I don't care for Grant now because he has no soul or heart for Barry anymore. he's not that person anymore when the show started he's just going with the motion.