[Alfaman]

Honestly I cannot take having to wait until January. There are so many permutations of what can happen but one thing I am convinced of is that Red is the good guy.

He may or may not be the real Red, but he loves Liz with all his heart, so if he were a brother or twin of real Red, he could have saved her the night of the fire after she shot her Dad who was fighting with her Mum. Her Dad being Red passing by at Christmas having had an affair with her Mum.

The fact Dom is 100% her Grandad and he loves and cares for her but keeps all Red’s secrets and is now firmly on his side shows Red hasn’t done something terrible. He has been shielding Liz from the truth. Everyone tells him to tell her but he feels it will hurt her too much.

The writers had to leave all open waiting to see if they got another season and they did. What I wrote above is just a small maybe. You could talk for hours on all the possibilities from all the clues throughout the seasons.

One thing is for sure. There are going to be so many twists next season.

Also I don’t believe Naomi is dead, and then Liz’s Mum could well still be alive. The writers have so many options. So happy this saga is going to continue even though it is stressing me out now!!! It’s like a drug!

[Fangirl49]

Hi and welcome. I totally agree that Red is a good guy. Not a doubt in my mind. Totally agree that it Dom is in agreement with Red then there has to be a good reason. I include Dembe in that as well.

I was totally convinced Naomi was alive until this episode, this episode changed my mind completely.

I also think Katarina is dead and that she killed herself. But one thing about it with this show you never completely know.

[Alfaman]

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) Hi and welcome. I totally agree that Red is a good guy. Not a doubt in my mind. Totally agree that it Dom is in agreement with Red then there has to be a good reason. I include Dembe in that as well. I was totally convinced Naomi was alive until this episode, this episode changed my mind completely. I also think Katarina is dead and that she killed herself. But one thing about it with this show you never completely know.

Thanks for the welcome. It is incredible the amount of different takes on the story.

Totally agree Dembe wouldn’t be part of anything bad to Liz. Obviously Dom loves her but both stick by Red.

Another site has tons of people saying Red is Katarina with a sex change which I think would be ridiculous.

I don’t think the writers will have totally decided yet on S6 as they only got confirmed very late. I do still think Naomi and Katarina could be alive. They’ve certainly left the door open if they decide to. How would Red have not heard about the killing? Surely he would have.

The only thing that we can be sure about is Red’s love for Liz. The rest is a conundrum!!!

[Fangirl49]

I think they have the basic plot of the story mapped out. I think they planned from the beginning for Red to be an imposter and they have his reasons mapped out and woven into the story. I bet all the clues are there. It's just a matter of how they fit. But other than that I agree that they develop the seasons individually

The whole Naomi thing bothers me too. How could Red not know? Especially if he put them into protective custody.

I'm with you on the sex change. That's just too silly for me as well. I've seen the posts from people who are convinced and yeah some of the logic makes me think welll maybe. But just no.

Red is taller has a deep voice etc. I don't think a sex change can do all that.

[Alfaman]

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) I think they have the basic plot of the story mapped out. I think they planned from the beginning for Red to be an imposter and they have his reasons mapped out and woven into the story. I bet all the clues are there. It's just a matter of how they fit. But other than that I agree that they develop the seasons individually The whole Naomi thing bothers me too. How could Red not know? Especially if he put them into protective custody. I'm with you on the sex change. That's just too silly for me as well. I've seen the posts from people who are convinced and yeah some of the logic makes me think welll maybe. But just no. Red is taller has a deep voice etc. I don't think a sex change can do all that.

Actually is it not strange that Red and Dembe went to Dom’s place to burn the bones.

Surely that implies Dom is going to be playing a much bigger role in S6 and if so delighted as Brian Dennnehy is another of my favorite actors.

How do we get through to January????

[Fangirl49]

It is strange they went to Doms. Dom knows everything. That's so amazing to me. How does it fit together? But if it means more Dom, bring it on.

I don't know how we will get to January. I was so angry with Liz at the end of the finale I was ready to quit the show.

But I need answers.

[Alfaman]

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) It is strange they went to Doms. Dom knows everything. That's so amazing to me. How does it fit together? But if it means more Dom, bring it on. I don't know how we will get to January. I was so angry with Liz at the end of the finale I was ready to quit the show. But I need answers.

He offered his life for Liz in front of her. She was in a rage over what Sutton Ross had told her, but if you watch, all Ross said he could prove it with the DNA.

Everyone involved in getting that DNA test is dead and I think there is a very good possibility they are not what Ross and Garvey thought. Nobody on Red’s side have ever said who’s bones they are. They only say “the truth”.

Red has admitted to screwing with her memory. Maybe she shot Katarina or the twin/brother scenario is possible. However whatever happened Dom is obviously involved and it is his daughter and granddaughter and great granddaughter he has accepted to having lost and accepts Red running her life.

The more I think about it having rewatched the last episode, I don’t believe those are Raymond’s bones. There was still no proof and why did they cut off Red’s confession to Sutton on “I am not.....

[JayT2001]

After bouncing back and forth on a couple of theories, I think I've come up with one that I liked. I call it the Spy vs Spy/twin theory. One came up from the US and the other from Russia and i think they were possibly separated at a young age perhaps their parents divorced and they were aware of each other. Its quite possible they both devised a plan to assume one identity. The Red we know being former KGB the other being Navy. The ideal plan for the KGB to get valuable Intel. There's more to my theory but this is a rough outline. Oh! One was Jennifer's father, the other Liz's. And yeah Naomi knew what was going on.

[Alfaman]

Originally Posted by JayT2001 (View Post) After bouncing back and forth on a couple of theories, I think I've come up with one that I liked. I call it the Spy vs Spy/twin theory. One came up from the US and the other from Russia and i think they were possibly separated at a young age perhaps their parents divorced and they were aware of each other. Its quite possible they both devised a plan to assume one identity. The Red we know being former KGB the other being Navy. The ideal plan for the KGB to get valuable Intel. There's more to my theory but this is a rough outline. Oh! One was Jennifer's father, the other Liz's. And yeah Naomi knew what was going on.

I do think the twin theory is very plausible, but I think it would have to be the other twin in the duffel. In the pilot they say Red’s fingerprints and tattoos match records. No character ever calls him anything but Raymond. Surely over the 5 seasons either Dembe, Mr Kaplin, or Dom would have let a clue slip and they all know the secret. I have no idea how they would have finished it if they hadn’t got season 6 offered. One thing that is for certain there are going to be more twists and turns than Monte Carlo racetrack.

[Fangirl49]

Originally Posted by Alfaman (View Post) The more I think about it having rewatched the last episode, I don’t believe those are Raymond’s bones. There was still no proof and why did they cut off Red’s confession to Sutton on “I am not.....

We've said all along in this forum that it's not the truth until Red tells Liz. Arrrrgh. You make a very good point. Plus he did tell tom something like whatever you think the truth is, it's more than that or something like that.

But I have to admit I'm all in on the imposter theory. And I don't want Red to be a twin. I think that makes it too easy. But I prefer it to him being Katarina. I've always thought they might go back to TBL Redemption of switching Russian persons into American citizens.

One thing about the twin theory is Red says something about plastic surgery in S1.

I do think that when this Red came up with his plan he would have made sure he "matched" the real Red. That means changing fingerprints or whatever. I also think there are probably no photos or family of the real Raymond. Naomi is probably the only person left who knew him. And she agreed to help. I think Fitch and Diane Fowler also knew his real identity and they are dead. Naomi is maybe dead. Kaplan, dead. That leaves Dom and Dembe and they won't tell.

Red also would have made sure there is no linkage back to who he was before. All photos destroyed. No way to find his families graves etc.

I said that to say, I hope they don't make it easy for Liz to find out who Red is. He's kept this secret for 30 years. She shouldn't be able to unravel it in an episode or 2.

I read an interview that said this was the ending for S5 no matter what. Can you imagine being left with this and no S6.

[Alfaman]

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) We've said all along in this forum that it's not the truth until Red tells Liz. Arrrrgh. You make a very good point. Plus he did tell tom something like whatever you think the truth is, it's more than that or something like that. But I have to admit I'm all in on the imposter theory. And I don't want Red to be a twin. I think that makes it too easy. But I prefer it to him being Katarina. I've always thought they might go back to TBL Redemption of switching Russian persons into American citizens. One thing about the twin theory is Red says something about plastic surgery in S1. I do think that when this Red came up with his plan he would have made sure he "matched" the real Red. That means changing fingerprints or whatever. I also think there are probably no photos or family of the real Raymond. Naomi is probably the only person left who knew him. And she agreed to help. I think Fitch and Diane Fowler also knew his real identity and they are dead. Naomi is maybe dead. Kaplan, dead. That leaves Dom and Dembe and they won't tell. Red also would have made sure there is no linkage back to who he was before. All photos destroyed. No way to find his families graves etc. I said that to say, I hope they don't make it easy for Liz to find out who Red is. He's kept this secret for 30 years. She shouldn't be able to unravel it in an episode or 2. I read an interview that said this was the ending for S5 no matter what. Can you imagine being left with this and no S6.

Ha ha, don’t worry, they’ll string us along again for 22 Episodes!!

[Miranda]

Welcome Alfaman! Awesome that you are joining us and discussing the show with us.

I totally don't believe that Red is Katarina either so I am with you on that one. It seriously is to ridiculous.

I can actually see something in the twin theory. That sounds more likely than Red being Katarina. You can change somebody's voice with hormones and such but it just didn't happen.

How can you change somebody's fingerprints Marilyn? Is that even possible? Well maybe it is cause thinking about it now.. didn't the Alchemist in S1 do that? He changed people's faces and everything but did he also change their fingerprints?

[JayT2001]

Originally Posted by Alfaman (View Post) Ha ha, don’t worry, they’ll string us along again for 22 Episodes!!

I'm not ruling out Rederina, Katarina or which ever but to me its always been slim. See Madeline Pratt, Naomi Hyland and Josephine Baker. But again I may be very wrong. My main reason for thinking a twin\sibling is I've come to realize with Red, its not about what he says but more about what he doesn't say and at no point has he ever mentioned a brother or sister and I think there's a very good reason for this, its way too close to the truth. But who knows?

[Alfaman]

Originally Posted by Miranda (View Post) Welcome Alfaman! Awesome that you are joining us and discussing the show with us. I totally don't believe that Red is Katarina either so I am with you on that one. It seriously is to ridiculous. I can actually see something in the twin theory. That sounds more likely than Red being Katarina. You can change somebody's voice with hormones and such but it just didn't happen. How can you change somebody's fingerprints Marilyn? Is that even possible? Well maybe it is cause thinking about it now.. didn't the Alchemist in S1 do that? He changed people's faces and everything but did he also change their fingerprints?

Thanks Miranda! Cool to find people chatting about it. Jay sort of touched on it there. Raymond never answers questions with an answer but with a question or an irrelevant anicdote story. There is something in that. Twins would help for there being DNA markers in the bones but maybe the DNA report is bull**** and they are Katarinas. Her body would have fitted into a suitcase but hardly a big man. That said they could be anyones!

[Fangirl49]

Yeah Miranda, I think the Alchemist could change anything. DNA fingerprints etc.

You can fit any body in a suitcase as long as you have a good saw. Ok that was an awful thing to say.

But I do agree. We need to hear from Red. I think a lot of the truth is in things he's already said. And he has never mentioned his biological family other than a mention of his father.